Why does everyone take Ash's word as gospel?

Started by AlienatedPredator, Sep 12, 2007, 01:14:02 PM

Author
Why does everyone take Ash's word as gospel? (Read 1,771 times)

AlienatedPredator

Whenever the argument comes up regarding the Aliens being cannon fodder, someone quotes Ash's line about them being the perfect organism, blah blah blah etc, so each individual Alien needs to be a significant threat blah blah blah . . . my point is:

How the f**k is Ash the ultimate authority on what is the ultimate species in the universe?? Has he ever met a Predator? Why does everyone quote his lines, as "Ash said it so it must be true"? Kind of ridiculous . . . in order to make that kind of statement Ash would have to first encounter every species in the universe and then determine that the Alien was the most "perfect". Not to mention he says "it" is the perfect organism even though their are hundreds of eggs in the Space Jockey's ship so really "they" would be a better pronoun.

Anyway, the purpose of this little rant is to deny Ash's right to make judgements regarding Alien vs Predator arguments. His word is NOT the ultimate truth in my opinion (not to mention he did have a history of lying).

gameoverman

Well Ash is a scientist and a robot so his opinion must be respected.

Uncanny Antman

His opinion is respected.  Highly respected.

The question why his opinion must be taken as ultimate truth.

xenomorph36

Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Sep 12, 2007, 01:48:33 PM
His opinion is respected.  Highly respected.

The question why his opinion must be taken as ultimate truth.

well his opinion is THE ulitmate truth because he was the guy who gave information about aliens in the film universe. so at least in the alien saga, the film itself  he is the truth. so in the movie universe this guy is the fact. in reality well both preds and aliens dont exist  :P

Cromartie

Ash was a hyperdyne android= a low tech screw up!

maledoro

What's worse is that (like the Gospels) they twist his words or just misinterpret them. All Ash was doing was just psyching out the remaining crew. Sure, they couldn't kill the alien because they were on a spaceship.

Uncanny Antman

Quote from: xenomorph36 on Sep 12, 2007, 02:02:50 PM
well his opinion is THE ulitmate truth because he was the guy who gave information about aliens in the film universe.

What kind of logic is that?  He states theories in the film.  Theories based on very limited information.

Not to mention, he is deceptive and manipulative.  You can't take anything he says to the rest of the crew for granted.

I don't agree with this being used as a way to argue that the Aliens are pushovers, but the point is still valid.

Cellien

I agree..  I don't see why his information would be better than everyone else's unless they already knew extensive knowledge of Xenomorphs back on earth.

gameoverman

Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Sep 12, 2007, 02:58:47 PM
Quote from: xenomorph36 on Sep 12, 2007, 02:02:50 PM
well his opinion is THE ulitmate truth because he was the guy who gave information about aliens in the film universe.
What kind of logic is that?  He states theories in the film.  Theories based on very limited information.

What?  Don't Ash use google?  :D

SM

He has high speed access to Wikipedia via the Network.

Cellien

Quote from: SM on Sep 13, 2007, 02:34:45 AM
He has high speed access to Wikipedia via the Network.

That's the only logical explanation!

The Necronoir

Actually, if you carry Ash's assertion through to its logical conclusion it actually reinforces the cannon-fodder behaviour we've seen the aliens use in subsequent films. The alien is a 'perfect organism', according to Ash, because it is emotionless and unencumbered with the delusions of a life purpose which we humans entertain. It's entire existence and every part of its evolution and physical adaptation is honed toward the survival of the species. There is no sense of the self which must be maintained over that of the species, so if a situation calls for an individual aliens death in order to ensure the species' survival there is no question of it doing anything else.

This is precisely what we see in Aliens when they throw themselves at the sentry guns, and again in Resurrection when the drone doesn't even attempt to resist when the other two are attacking it.

Ash admires it and regards it as the perfect organism because it is ultimately a perfect machine, unencumbered with the restrictions and human limitations placed on him (also a machine) by his human creators. Even Call rues the fact that she's forced (by her programming) to care for the human race.

Cellien

Nice observations Necronoir!

The Chibi Kiriyama

I don't think they're the perfect organism, but the original script definitely insinuates that he knows enough about them to see everything about their pure expressions to be perfect. It's not surprising, considering how he releases sexual frustration in his attempt at killing Ripley. As an android, there seems to be an admiration for the creature's ability to do what it wants unrestricted by limitations.

I do, however, feel that they're some of the most enduring survivors in their universe. Their highly adaptive tendencies make them hard to snuff out.

Brightside

Brightside

#14
Ok, so I'm one of the people who like to see the alien as a perfect organism, Alien is my favourite film of the series and I love the way it's portrayed there. But I would never use the Ash quote as an argument to prove that the alien is the ultimate creature or to prove a point in one of the never-ending Alien vs. Predator discussions.

Because "Alien being a perfect organism" has little connection to what Ash says, really. He just describes what we see. That's what is far more important: the way it is portrayed in the movie and the role it plays. In the history of the Nostromo, the alien indeed appears to be an indestructible, ultimate predator, pure instinct, a killing machine. In this case it's the form, not the substance that matters.

You can say all you want about the Nostromo crew being unarmed, and Ripley ultimately killing the alien by herself, etc. etc., and from a logical and rational point of ciew you'll be right. BUT, from the narrative standpoint, the alien is something far more than a dangerous animal. He's something almost (?) supernatural, a being not subjected to laws of physics and nature. And I think that's why the movie worked so well - a completely realistic and believable spaceship representing the world of logic and science and it's crew suddenly encountered something that defys all laws of science and reason, a creature of almost demonic characteristics.

Later this approach was dropped and in my opinion, cheapened the whole concept and made the alien definetely more animal and by that more "realistic", "logical", and safe. And pairing it with the Predator ultimately sealed this rational and animalistic image. The designs reflected this idea, too, turning from biomechanical to fleshy.

So, in the end, it all depends on your tastes: a "lovecraftian" beast incomprehensible to human thought or just an extremely dangerous animal from outer space. I prefer the former.

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