Has AvPR improved wih age?

[whiterabbit]

Royal Facehugger eh... that calls for a Royal Face Palm. Oh sure lets just make it bigger and carry more eggs, yea that's basically what the Predalien was folks.

[Perfect-Organism]

Guys, the royal facehugger was a classic Dark Horse idea that dates back to about 1988.  It appeared in issue 2 of the Mark A Nelson, Mark Verheiden's series.  While it may or may not be canon, when someone suggests that it's not part of the classic Aliens lore, that's just poppycock.

The queen facehugger reappeared in issue 34 of Dark Horse Presents, to kick off the first ever Aliens Vs. Predator comic series.

[predxeno]

Now I'm getting interested in this Royal Facehugger debate, do you know which exact titles mentioned this creature?  The first I can think of is mention of a Royal Egg in Aliens: Stronghold.

[Perfect-Organism]

I can tell you with 100% certainty that the actual "eggs" appeared for the first time in Dark Horse Presents 24.  The eggs had dark blotchy markings (like from a Rorschach test) on them.  This issue was Dr. Orona's paper on "Theory of Alien Propagation".  I think it came out after Aliens (series 1) issue 2, but in the compiled TPB, it appeared after issue 1.  This is important because in issue 2 we see a queen facehugger.  She has the same blotches on her air sacs and also has these thorny spines on her back.  It looks alright.  The design is ok.  Anyway, we don't get to see the egg in issue 2, only the queen facehugger at the end.  So which came first, the facehugger or the egg?

[chrisr232007]

Hell no the this tread....that is all.

[Perfect-Organism]

If you look at issue 34 of DHP carefully, you will see that there is an alien queen egg there, but the design of the egg is for whatever reason a bit different.  There are no splotches on the egg, but instead it appears to have these big bumpy spore shapes or something.  Anyway, in this issue, there is basically an alien birthing assembly line.  When the system recognizes that there is a queen egg born, it quickly destroys it.  But at the end of the story, we see that the queens ovipositor fools the system and allows an alien queen to survive and get out.  Life finds a way.

[predxeno]

Oh yes, I almost forgot about the Theory of Alien Propagation, I just never considered it canon because it was only a "theory" rather than a part of the storyline.  Btw, was Dark Horse Presents #24 and #34 ever placed in the Omnibus releases?

[Perfect-Organism]

DHP 24 was released in every compilation of book 1, so that includes, the original TPB, the colored TPB, the original and upcoming HC and also Aliens omnibus volume1.

DHP 34 formed a black and white tryptic of tales that was continued in DHP 35, and 36.  The three stories were first combined into one volume in Aliens vs Predator #0.  Subsequently, these stories were reprinted in the AVP TPB with full color added for the first time.  After that, I presume they made it into the AVP omnibus, but as I don't own a copy I can't confirm this.

Incidentally, the DHP 34, 35, and 36 issues are structured similarly to the new Rage War series.  Issue 34 was Aliens, Issue 35 was Predator, and issue 36 was the first ever full-on AVP story ever published anywhere.  It came with 2 cover variants.

[whiterabbit]

Nerds!

The Royal facehugger just seems a little too contrived and boring for my taste. I rather like the cocooning or morphing parts better. It's kind of how I prefer Prometheus over the Spaith script(w/ improvements). Sure Spaith draft would make for a more coherent movie but in my opinion that movie would have blown and have been lame blasted worse. Yet this debate makes me feel like being stuck on the end of a piece of shit that's still in the anus; while the other side in on the other end enjoying the sunshine. Yea it's shit either way.



I also only read a few comics and a couple of novel. I didn't like the novels I read either.

[Perfect-Organism]

The white tape is coming off of my glasses.  ;-)

So you think that all the other eggs have to come from a queen but the Queen basically comes from egg-morphing?  That's some whackadoo shit Bro!

[whiterabbit]

The white tape is coming off of my glasses.  ;-)

So you think that all the other eggs have to come from a queen but the Queen basically comes from egg-morphing?  That's some whackadoo shit Bro!

Oh no, not that. Just that Kanes son would have either made a queen from somebody corpse or became the queen itself. I'm perfectly fine with a queen from any given facehugger. Just pointless to have a SUPERhugger. Plus the egg in the Sulaco was much smaller looking, there is no way that huge ass thing would have fit inside it.

Of course there was no need for the queen in the original concept being that it was supposed to have been spores.

If you want some serious whackadoo shit then how about my idea that the eggs in the derelict are like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get. That would then make a superfacehugger awesome.

[predxeno]

The white tape is coming off of my glasses.  ;-)

So you think that all the other eggs have to come from a queen but the Queen basically comes from egg-morphing?  That's some whackadoo shit Bro!

If the Alien is a female then it turns into a Queen but if it's male then it eggmorphs to make a female; that's really the only way eggmorphing can really be justified in the Alien life cycle tbh, I know people don't like to gender the Alien but that's just the way it is.

[SiL]

Not at all. The humans were never on top at any point during the movie. Even when Ripley ejected the harpooned Alien, who almost came on to her in an almost sexual manner, we still had that feeling of this rapist creature could come back and violate us.

Right up until she vaporised it with the engine. Then it was pretty dead. Goodbye monster, hello peaceful sleep.

In ALIEN Ripley drifts off alone (...and the traitorous cat Jones), violated and f**ked up in ALIEN

She wasn't terribly f**ked up -- she was still entirely level headed when dealing the Alien and stopped to make an official report before going to sleep. Aliens established the psychological scarring, not Alien.

Ripley goes to sleep to live happily ever after in both movies. Only the sequels -- for both movies -- reveal this isn't strictly the case. They're both safe. The good guys won. The end.

They didn't. The most poetic, beautiful and poignant scene in all of the movies is The Funeral Scene.

People don't, generall,y die at their funerals. Hicks and Newt weren't exceptions. Their actual deaths were inglorious and cheap.

That scene completely nullifies the argument that Hix & Noot's deaths were cheap, or inglorious, blah blah etc.

No it doesn't, it strengthens the argument that the film just dressed it up prettier than most.

They fill a symbolic purpose.

As do topless teens smoking drugs and having gratuitous sex in such artistic slasher movies as, well, all of them.

I see where you're coming from SiL, but you're really simplifying it, lots of cherry picking some details while ignoring others.

Pointing out that 90% of the cast of Alien3 is faceless and interchangeable and only exists to die is neither cherry picking nor a small detail.

I'm curious though why you defend ALIENS so much but have no problem throwing the other movies under the bus?

When did I throw Alien under a bus, exactly? When I pointed out the clear fact the film as as Hollywood friendly as its sequel? That it has the same happy ending? That it's not a deep, challenging arthouse extravaganza? Sorry, I'm not pretentious enough to let those things make me feel my favourite movie is somehow lesser so I don't feel I'm doing it a disservice.

As for Alien3, it's well known I like it more than Aliens. But it's a flawed movie and I'm not doing it a disservice any more than I did Alien.

Pointing out that films aren't what you're trying to make of them isn't throwing them under a bus, it's having a different perspective.

You're just as biased as I am.

I'm really not. You talk about Aliens in broad, simple, dismissive terms, but couch your discussions of Alien and Alien3 in rhetoric and pretense to make them seem like something they're not. You're very careful with your wording to make Aliens sound as bad as possible and every other movie great by comparison. I just use even language for all of them.

It's like someone describe dog shit as a smelly, brown, sticky mess and cat shit as aromatic, earthen-coloured, softly textured excretions. One sounds more palatable, but it seems like a waste of energy to get upset when someone points out they're still both pieces of crap

(The dog and cat poo, not the movies)

[SpreadEagleBeagle]

Right up until she vaporised it with the engine. Then it was pretty dead. Goodbye monster, hello peaceful sleep.

Problem is that it wasn't vaporized. It drifted into space, potentially alive since we never see it die.

Ripley goes to sleep to live happily ever after in both movies. Only the sequels -- for both movies -- reveal this isn't strictly the case. They're both safe. The good guys won. The end.

Theoretically, yes. But in ALIENS she ended up getting a traditional family after literally beating up the monster and overcoming the laws of physics. In the end of ALIENS Ripley was no longer just another human being, she was a freaking super hero.

They didn't. The most poetic, beautiful and poignant scene in all of the movies is The Funeral Scene.

People don't, generall,y die at their funerals. Hicks and Newt weren't exceptions. Their actual deaths were inglorious and cheap.

No. No, they weren't. Now you're just deflecting the fact that Hicks and Newt's deaths were honored more than any other death in the movies, even more so than Ripley's sacrifice.

That scene completely nullifies the argument that Hix & Noot's deaths were cheap, or inglorious, blah blah etc.

No it doesn't, it strengthens the argument that the film just dressed it up prettier than most.

On the contrary, and you know it.

They fill a symbolic purpose.

As do topless teens smoking drugs and having gratuitous sex in such artistic slasher movies as, well, all of them.

Now I'm starting to believe that you're just trolling me, or you're more prestigious of a person than I thought.

I see where you're coming from SiL, but you're really simplifying it, lots of cherry picking some details while ignoring others.

Pointing out that 90% of the cast of Alien3 is faceless and interchangeable and only exists to die is neither cherry picking nor a small detail.

You know what I'm talking about. You're cherry picking ALIENS to uphold its overrated status, while you're being overtly stiff and rigid when it comes to A3, scrutinizing it on an unfair level whereas ALIENS get a free pass.

When did I throw Alien under a bus, exactly? When I pointed out the clear fact the film as as Hollywood friendly as its sequel? That it has the same happy ending? That it's not a deep, challenging arthouse extravaganza? Sorry, I'm not pretentious enough to let those things make me feel my favourite movie is somehow lesser so I don't feel I'm doing it a disservice.

Sorry, I worded it the wrong way. As you may have noticed I have a tendency so sound very dramatic when discussing stuff online. What I was getting at is that all the movies except ALIENS you unveil, undress and scrutinize. According to your posts ALIENS is a flawless masterpiece on all levels.

As for Alien3, it's well known I like it more than Aliens. But it's a flawed movie and I'm not doing it a disservice any more than I did Alien.

I totally agree with you on the first part - A3 is indeed flawed, and ALIEN has its share of flaws too. But as I mentioned above, ALIENS totally gets special treatment from you. Maybe it's not intentional, but the fact remains.

Pointing out that films aren't what you're trying to make of them isn't throwing them under a bus, it's having a different perspective.

You're just as biased as I am.

I'm really not. You talk about Aliens in broad, simple, dismissive terms, but couch your discussions of Alien and Alien3 in rhetoric and pretense to make them seem like something they're not. You're very careful with your wording to make Aliens sound as bad as possible and every other movie great by comparison. I just use even language for all of them.[/quote]

No you don't. You and I discuss the movies opposite ways. I might be indirectly trashing on ALIENS while you're indirectly trashing on al the other movies.

It's like someone describe dog shit as a smelly, brown, sticky mess and cat shit as aromatic, earthen-coloured, softly textured excretions. One sounds more palatable, but it seems like a waste of energy to get upset when someone points out they're still both pieces of crap

(The dog and cat poo, not the movies)

Nice analogy.

[SiL]

No. No, they weren't. Now you're just deflecting the fact that Hicks and Newt's deaths were honored more than any other death in the movies, even more so than Ripley's sacrifice.

They died off-screen in their sleep -- that's not glorious. Their death can be "honoured" to high hell later for all I care, that doesn't change the fact the actual act of their deaths was cheap and to generate shock and disorientation in the audience. Stop trying to redefine the argument.

You're cherry picking ALIENS to uphold its overrated status, while you're being overtly stiff and rigid when it comes to A3, scrutinizing it on an unfair level whereas ALIENS get a free pass.

That is so rich coming from someone who says that a cast made primarily of faceless -- and in some cases, literally nameless -- prison inmates who exist only to die is actually some profound metaphysical statement about God and man's place in the universe, but that using contemporary conventions in Aliens to set a mood and expectation that gets flipped on its head is a sign of shitty, sub-par writing.

You're the one cherry picking, not me. I'm calling spades spades.

According to your posts ALIENS is a flawless masterpiece on all levels.

By pointing out that its ending is no happier than Alien's...? Because that's really the only compliment I've given it. You must really, really f**king hate the movie to see someone saying "It's not happier than the original" as the same as saying "It's flawless". Get a grip.