AVP: part of the canon, or a separate universe?

[SiL]

You're merely making a claim. You need to provide evidence.

The evidence is "people who work with Fox are explicitly telling you that you are incorrect." As much as you love your original post, you cannot argue you are correct in supposing the company holds a position when people who work for the company are telling you they do not. It's that simple.

Your claim that it doesn't hold water involves you shifting the goal posts and reinterpreting what you're being told in a way that fits your argument.

[Samhain13]

I doubt it matters much to Fox either way.

[TurokSwe]

SM, is the evidence.

First, I already refuted him. Second, I made a stronger case in my OP than he did.

[SiL]

First, I already refuted him.

No, you said "Films don't consider other films when they're being made anyway", which is wrong to begin with. AvP was considered by the writers when they were making Prometheus. Ridley Scott could not have cared less, and they chose to ignore them.

Second, I made a stronger case in my OP than he did.

There is no stronger argument than "No, Fox does not hold this position you've claimed it does." Regardless of how long your post, that's all that's necessary to counter your point.

[TurokSwe]

You're merely making a claim. You need to provide evidence.

The evidence is "people who work with Fox are explicitly telling you that you are incorrect." As much as you love your original post, you cannot argue you are correct in supposing the company holds a position when people who work for the company are telling you they do not. It's that simple.

Your claim that it doesn't hold water involves you shifting the goal posts and reinterpreting what you're being told in a way that fits your argument.

If you're again referring to SM, then I must remind you I still refuted him in our discussion together, and my OP is still better supported than his argument was. Noting that even an individual who works for a certain company is able to make mistakes.

[The Old One]

No, you didn't.

The representative of 20th Century Fox saying that Fox doesn't consider AVP Canon, is the goddamn trump card.

[SiL]

He's not a rep, he just works with them.

Same result, though.

[TurokSwe]

First, I already refuted him.

No, you said "Films don't consider other films when they're being made anyway", which is wrong to begin with. AvP was considered by the writers when they were making Prometheus. Ridley Scott could not have cared less, and they chose to ignore them.

Second, I made a stronger case in my OP than he did.

There is no stronger argument than "No, Fox does not hold this position you've claimed it does." Regardless of how long your post, that's all that's necessary to counter your point.

First, I never said any such thing. You may have misunderstood me. Second, now you're merely talking nonsense. I already refuted SM in our discussion together, so could you show me enough respect and properly address the arguments in my OP?

I doubt it matters much to Fox either way.

I might actually agree on that.

[SiL]

First, I never said any such thing.

I'm not sure what that's even supposed to mean or how that relates to the official canon. Obviously stories strictly centered on the Alien  or Predator licenses won't be considering AVP

AvP was considered for Prometheus. And ignored.

I already refuted SM in our discussion together,

You didn't, and insisting as such doesn't change anything.

[TurokSwe]

No, you didn't.

The representative of 20th Century Fox saying that Fox doesn't consider AVP Canon, is the goddamn trump card.

The problem is that many people can technically represent the company and have a different stance on the matter, and I still refuted his argument earlier, to which he refused to respond.

First, I never said any such thing.

I'm not sure what that's even supposed to mean or how that relates to the official canon. Obviously stories strictly centered on the Alien  or Predator licenses won't be considering AVP

AvP was considered for Prometheus. And ignored.

I already refuted SM in our discussion together,

You didn't, and insisting as such doesn't change anything.

First, that is not the same as what you implied that I said. Please read my statement and yours again carefully. I didn't say that they don't consider other films during the production of a new film, I stated that stories intended to be strictly based upon either Alien or Predator won't be considering AVP, unless otherwise noted. Second, I did refute him, and insisting that I didn't won't change anything either.

[Xenomrph]

Well, B does matter because it means for instance in the case of Covenant a lot of people are engendered to consider it legitimate regardless of quality and take it into consideration. Even if they don't like the film.

Whereas if Fox didn't consider it canon, any consideration of it would be much easier to dismiss because it's literally not considered by the license holders.

Alternately, you can ignore what FOX says and do what you want, for reasons I've already stated. No one is "forcing" you to consider anything.

FOX's stance on "canon" is so fluid as to be meaningless on an end-user level. There were dozens of comics and videogames and the like that were "officially canon" for decades, and all of a sudden they're "not canon" (which, when you truly stop and think about the ramifications, means literally nothing). Then FOX said "okay here's the line in the sand where 'official canon' starts", but then Alien Covenant comes out and outright contradicts a bunch of those "officially canon" items, and then releases even more that are extremely likely to be ignored/contradicted if more movies come out. So at best you've got things that are contradictory but still officially canon, or at least a constantly shifting goalpost that makes the concept meaningless.

Gotta disagree with this, sometimes the rules get updated- that's all it amounts to.
And I didn't say anyone had to abide by or take into consideration the media that is considered canon by Fox, only that they're engendered to.

My point is why do "the rules" matter? And by your estimation, what's the difference between having to abide by something, and being engendered to?

I doubt it matters much to Fox either way.

Also, this.

No, you didn't.

The representative of 20th Century Fox saying that Fox doesn't consider AVP Canon, is the goddamn trump card.

The problem is that many people can technically represent the company and have a different stance on the matter, and I still refuted his argument earlier, to which he refused to respond.

A few things.

One - you're not wrong on one level. SM is not an employee of FOX, nor do his views express those of 20th Century Fox, etc.

That said, he does consult with them and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on what FOX thinks, even if he's not their official mouthpiece and I suspect FOX would disavow him if he tried to act as such.

THAT said, as I've said before, who gives a shit what FOX thinks, etc.

As for refuting his argument, that's the whole "agree to disagree" thing. You feel you refuted what he said, he obvious disagrees, and he owes you nothing. You feel your OP is wonderful, but no one here is obligated to engage with it. It's cool when people do, but I see dozens of topics on this thread that I opt to skip over because they don't interest me or I fundamentally disagree with them but don't feel it's worth my time to argue against because it wouldn't accomplish anything.

[SiL]

I stated that stories intended to be strictly based upon either Alien or Predator won't be considering AVP

And this is still wrong, as I've pointed out repeatedly now, which you insist on ignoring.

[TurokSwe]

I stated that stories intended to be strictly based upon either Alien or Predator won't be considering AVP

And this is still wrong, as I've pointed out repeatedly now, which you insist on ignoring.

You have not at all explained what is supposed to be wrong with this.

[SiL]

Prometheus was made strictly based on Alien.

They considered the first AvP film while writing the story.

They chose to ignore information in the first AvP and put contradicting information in their film.

They considered it and actively chose to contradict it. That's wrong with what you're saying.

[TurokSwe]

Well, B does matter because it means for instance in the case of Covenant a lot of people are engendered to consider it legitimate regardless of quality and take it into consideration. Even if they don't like the film.

Whereas if Fox didn't consider it canon, any consideration of it would be much easier to dismiss because it's literally not considered by the license holders.

Alternately, you can ignore what FOX says and do what you want, for reasons I've already stated. No one is "forcing" you to consider anything.

FOX's stance on "canon" is so fluid as to be meaningless on an end-user level. There were dozens of comics and videogames and the like that were "officially canon" for decades, and all of a sudden they're "not canon" (which, when you truly stop and think about the ramifications, means literally nothing). Then FOX said "okay here's the line in the sand where 'official canon' starts", but then Alien Covenant comes out and outright contradicts a bunch of those "officially canon" items, and then releases even more that are extremely likely to be ignored/contradicted if more movies come out. So at best you've got things that are contradictory but still officially canon, or at least a constantly shifting goalpost that makes the concept meaningless.

Gotta disagree with this, sometimes the rules get updated- that's all it amounts to.
And I didn't say anyone had to abide by or take into consideration the media that is considered canon by Fox, only that they're engendered to.

My point is why do "the rules" matter? And by your estimation, what's the difference between having to abide by something, and being engendered to?

I doubt it matters much to Fox either way.

Also, this.

No, you didn't.

The representative of 20th Century Fox saying that Fox doesn't consider AVP Canon, is the goddamn trump card.

The problem is that many people can technically represent the company and have a different stance on the matter, and I still refuted his argument earlier, to which he refused to respond.

A few things.

One - you're not wrong on one level. SM is not an employee of FOX, nor do his views express those of 20th Century Fox, etc.

That said, he does consult with them and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on what FOX thinks, even if he's not their official mouthpiece and I suspect FOX would disavow him if he tried to act as such.

THAT said, as I've said before, who gives a shit what FOX thinks, etc.

As for refuting his argument, that's the whole "agree to disagree" thing. You feel you refuted what he said, he obvious disagrees, and he owes you nothing. You feel your OP is wonderful, but no one here is obligated to engage with it. It's cool when people do, but I see dozens of topics on this thread that I opt to skip over because they don't interest me or I fundamentally disagree with them but don't feel it's worth my time to argue against because it wouldn't accomplish anything.

Agreed, I can see where you're coming from. However it seemed to me as though he merely assumed that something wasn't canon because of how they develop new stories, rather than being directly told by Fox what the deal actually is.