The SONG OF ICE AND FIRE Thread

[Local Trouble]

I have no desire to spoil it nor do I need to be right.   This show has demonstrated time and again that it has no fear of kicking its fans in the balls.

[Voodoo Magic]

I have no desire to spoil it nor do I need to be right.   This show has demonstrated time and again that it has no fear of kicking its fans in the balls.

And what of the ladies?

[Local Trouble]

Falcon punched in the ovaries.

[Voodoo Magic]

And here I thought you'd have no answer. 

[Biomechanoid]

Your explanation doesn't account for the hardcore fans complaining too, one example of many being the IOIAF video I posted above. And the constant hardcore fans voicing their problems with D&D's work. So when it comes down to it, your opinion has no more weight than mine, and vice-versa.

Spoiler

I certainly can't account for all the hardcore fans, but articles I have read, many complaints are from the non-readers of the book who are voicing their problems with it, whereas those who have read it (I haven't) are not shocked at all that Dany is a murdering wackadoo psycho.

We all have our own perspective of the description 'hardcore fan.' I see a fan or casual follower as someone who simply watched and admired a movie or show and nothing more. A hardcore fan dives into every media aspect of that movie or show or book.

Much like the Alien/Predator hardcore fans here. I would be surprised any frequently active member here has never explored beyond the 12 movies this forum is based on. Many of the members here have explored way, way more details on the characters, locales, plot, etc. than what the films present.

And from what I have read, it's not like Dany's M.O. is some obscure info buried in a fanboy's blog on his freehosting.com site. Her M.O. is shared in great detail by the creator himself in the novel.

So when it comes to it, if those disgruntled viewers don't really know Dany's real M.O., then that hardly qualifies them as "hardcore fans."...... imo

[close]

your opinion has no more weight than mine, and vice-versa.

Well....not that it matters, but a couple members here pm'd me and said my opinion weighs a few more ounces than yours.......

[LastSonofKrypton]

Spoiler

I have no problem with Dany becoming the mad queen.  It has been foreshadowed a couple of times in the show. 

What I do have a problem with is a show that has built itself on taking it's time, and showing that the world has real consequences for even its own beloved heroes.  The show has steadily declined in quality, beginning with Stannis Baratheon.  Characters make poor decisions to advance the plot,all of a sudden they can just move around Westeros in a single episode whereas in the past it took two or three.

This has been all the more prevalent in this season, and the previous two.  Varys could teleport, the Dorne story was butchered, forced drama between Arya and Sansa that was supposed to the clever manipulation of Littlefinger.  Speaking of which, Littlefinger, Tyrion, Varys have all had their characters absolutely mutilated by the writers of the show, the three smartest characters suddenly making mistakes, and being fooled, again just to advance the plot

Plot armour is suddenly a thing, from the stupid journey into the real north to catch a wight, to the god awful battle of Winterfell, where characters are swarmed one minute, then fine the next.  The scorpions were supposed to be formidable weapons against the dragons after decimating Rhaegal, despite being behind a mountain, but in the battle of King's Landing they are suddenly inaccurate and useless. 

The execution of this season has been horrendous, everything has been rushed for no apparent reason. 

The formidable Night King was pointless.

The formidable Golden Company was pointless

Jamie's arc was ruined

Arya's arc was ruined

Jon Snow was ruined completely

Bronn has been removed completely

As for Dany, it might have been foreshadowed, but her descent into madness was rushed, and poorly executed.  Besides, if she lost it, why not just have her destroy the Red Keep with some accidental collateral damage, not have her suddenly mow down thousands of civilians for no better reason than shock value.

There is no excuse for a show that in its first few seasons, was up there with The Wire, Generation Kill and The Sopranos to drop in quality to this degree. 

[close]

[Highland]

I think most people can probably agree whether you liked what happened or not the show doesn't give enough time to the eventual blow up. There's just no way you can justify it, unless you want to go with the ran out of money or time.

That might have been the plan, it just didn't mature well enough for it to be believable.

[Corporal Hicks]

your opinion has no more weight than mine, and vice-versa.

Well....not that it matters, but a couple members here pm'd me and said my opinion weighs a few more ounces than yours.......

Let's stop with this attitude. please. You're not having a pissing contest. I actually mostly agree with your thoughts on the episode but I'm finding how you're conducting yourself here to be quite distasteful.

[Eva]

That might have been the plan, it just didn't mature well enough for it to be believable.

Yes, the overall storyline and character arcs are mostly fine and probably in accordance with George RR Martins plans for the last two books. However, the execution of that story is lacking in parts and I'm sure fans will discuss why that is (and who to blame) for years to come.

As for viewers claiming that Dany's character arc turn came out of nowhere and ruins the show - remember Dany's vision in season 2?



This was foreshadowed since the start.

[The Kurgan]

Your explanation doesn't account for the hardcore fans complaining too, one example of many being the IOIAF video I posted above. And the constant hardcore fans voicing their problems with D&D's work. So when it comes down to it, your opinion has no more weight than mine, and vice-versa.

Spoiler

I certainly can't account for all the hardcore fans, but articles I have read, many complaints are from the non-readers of the book who are voicing their problems with it, whereas those who have read it (I haven't) are not shocked at all that Dany is a murdering wackadoo psycho.

We all have our own perspective of the description 'hardcore fan.' I see a fan or casual follower as someone who simply watched and admired a movie or show and nothing more. A hardcore fan dives into every media aspect of that movie or show or book.

Much like the Alien/Predator hardcore fans here. I would be surprised any frequently active member here has never explored beyond the 12 movies this forum is based on. Many of the members here have explored way, way more details on the characters, locales, plot, etc. than what the films present.

And from what I have read, it's not like Dany's M.O. is some obscure info buried in a fanboy's blog on his freehosting.com site. Her M.O. is shared in great detail by the creator himself in the novel.

So when it comes to it, if those disgruntled viewers don't really know Dany's real M.O., then that hardly qualifies them as "hardcore fans."...... imo

[close]

your opinion has no more weight than mine, and vice-versa.

Well....not that it matters, but a couple members here pm'd me and said my opinion weighs a few more ounces than yours.......

I have read the books multiple times (as well as basically every offical background material there is).

Spoiler

for book Dany the change(as it happens in the show) is even less believable than for the show version as it stands.

[close]

You make a lot of claims of

Spoiler

previous sadism and fits of madness but the only actual example you give is her showing satisfaction when the brother, who tormented her for her entire life and sold her to a warlord for his ambition and then threatened to cut out her unborn child, got killed before her. Hell, most pople would probably have him killed as soon as they had the power to do so. She tried to prevent him from getting killed by the dothraki multiple times before instead.

She was actually shown to be kind and compassionate despite it costing her on multiple occasions. Especially towards innocent women and children. Your Mad King analogy also misses. Aerys had a history of gradually descending into madness, paranoia and sadism over the years after he was imprisoned during the Defiance of Duskendale, forever changing the man he was. He did not just decide one day to flip the switch to full blown massacre mode.

Sure she got angry at times, dishing out brutal punishment but often reluctant and forced to do it. Just imagin Tywin,Stanis,Robert (or any other character in a comparable position), beeing in the situations she was in. Things would go quite different. With a lot more heads on pikes. Hell, even John hanged a f*cking child. 

[close]

As had been said before by multiple people,

Spoiler

Its not that she followed into her fathers steps, it's the how that most people have an issue with. They could easily have build up to it in a believable fashion. But i guess "Well, you didn't see that coming" > " actual character development"

[close]

Also, I hope your pm-bragging was a joke.

Spoiler

I have no problem with Dany becoming the mad queen.  It has been foreshadowed a couple of times in the show. 

What I do have a problem with is a show that has built itself on taking it's time, and showing that the world has real consequences for even its own beloved heroes.  The show has steadily declined in quality, beginning with Stannis Baratheon.  Characters make poor decisions to advance the plot,all of a sudden they can just move around Westeros in a single episode whereas in the past it took two or three.

This has been all the more prevalent in this season, and the previous two.  Varys could teleport, the Dorne story was butchered, forced drama between Arya and Sansa that was supposed to the clever manipulation of Littlefinger.  Speaking of which, Littlefinger, Tyrion, Varys have all had their characters absolutely mutilated by the writers of the show, the three smartest characters suddenly making mistakes, and being fooled, again just to advance the plot

Plot armour is suddenly a thing, from the stupid journey into the real north to catch a wight, to the god awful battle of Winterfell, where characters are swarmed one minute, then fine the next.  The scorpions were supposed to be formidable weapons against the dragons after decimating Rhaegal, despite being behind a mountain, but in the battle of King's Landing they are suddenly inaccurate and useless. 

The execution of this season has been horrendous, everything has been rushed for no apparent reason. 

The formidable Night King was pointless.

The formidable Golden Company was pointless

Jamie's arc was ruined

Arya's arc was ruined

Jon Snow was ruined completely

Bronn has been removed completely

As for Dany, it might have been foreshadowed, but her descent into madness was rushed, and poorly executed.  Besides, if she lost it, why not just have her destroy the Red Keep with some accidental collateral damage, not have her suddenly mow down thousands of civilians for no better reason than shock value.

There is no excuse for a show that in its first few seasons, was up there with The Wire, Generation Kill and The Sopranos to drop in quality to this degree. 

[close]

Spoiler

Besides the Bronn part. Dude should have disappeared after Tyrion's trial

[close]

[Highland]

Also whats the deal with Bran was he just like the super hero that didnt have any powers or what?

[LastSonofKrypton]

Also whats the deal with Bran was he just like the super hero that didnt have any powers or what?

Spoiler

He's CCTV before there was CCTV but somebody forgot to press record

[close]

[Shasvre]

[LastSonofKrypton]

https://images2.imgbox.com/06/4e/8RIC6OOr_o.jpg

Bobby B was right all along... Dammit Ned!!!!

[The Kurgan]

Bob:1

Ned:0