Possible AVP2 storylines from AVP's ending...

[RIJOENPIAL]

Well, Rilyreign,

thanks for the compliment... 'Imagination' is the keyword  here...

Even if AVP made some things that ones liked, and others didn't, there is always a possibility to improve or add or contextualise those 'mistakes', and the imagination plays a significant role here...

Just some clarifications ensue:

1) Lex is not a prey anymore, not after AVP... her markings made her one of their own, not a Predator per se, but an ally...

2) The spear would be how she would end her... The Predators know the week spots to kill Xenos...They had to... so they would know and teach her (OFF-CAMERA) everything she needed to do... let me remind you that a martial arts expert can kill a foe with only two fingers, if need be... and I said earlier that Lex, while the Predators would be returning home after the AVP events (6-month journey), she would be training her proficiency in the use of the spear, training mind and body, and becoming intensively trained in martial arts and gymnastics... Her motivation for this would be to be in shape when the Predators call upon her... which she knew would happen... HOW?... Before Scar died, he placed his ceremonial dagger on his chest, seeming to trying to kill himself... after saying 'the enemy of my enemy...' which Lex completed '....is my friend...' She knew then that Scar had a Xeno inside him, but she never got to tell the Elder her suspicions...
(The footage of this could be retrieved from AVP's edited scenes...then some shots of Lex looking at her spear - all this would be either in the prologue or in media res)...

3) Survival would be a powerful motivator for the Predators to join forces and attack the Predalien 'army'... Though being individualistic and ritualistic, they know the universal language of 'survival', like the Xenomorphs do so well...

4) The 'conversation' would not be entirely linguistic...he would realistically lack some words, using often times mimickery... He would be not so much making smalltalk, but showing her the Predator ways... being her an ally now...

5) The Alien king would be a nouveauté... besides the Predalien army and the Queen...

6) One of the Alien motivators could be a 'Warehouse' the Predators had full of Xeno eggs, heavily guarded by a special Predator force, heavily armed, that was why the Aliens would need to get there in force... a fact which came to the knowledge of the Alien Queen by the 'Predatorian General' by hisses and growls... Kinda like the raptors communication  in Jurassic Park, only Xeno-like...

7) This story is complex, but doable... and it would just require the fans and viewers to keep an open mind and stop being puritain about some aspects that weren't even in the previous movies... namely the Praetorian Predator or 'Predatorian' (we know that in bee-like colonies the Queen is guarded by 'drone' bees or male 'honey' bees), the Aliens that were the second wave, from various DNAs, more identical in shape to the 'Dog' Alien from Alien 3, and the various hierarchies of Predators shown by their ensembles and markings...

So, it would be rich in detail and action, even though the 'war scenes would be alternated between MASSIVE shots (or the software used in AVP to do the cutscene explosion with the thousands of Aliens - here only some hundreds, as the more Aliens were, the less hosts, namely predators, there would be... it would be the classsic subtraction - the more Aliens, the less Predators...) and shots of a few close-and-personal stunts ...And being the Predators individualistic in nature, some would be scattered over a vast region, enabling first the Predalien, then the drone Aliens to ambush them...
   
So, I think this would be a very good movie, with somewhat a classic structure (threat lands - people start disappearing - threat discovered - battle (as secondary plot, hunt as first plot) - climax of battle (explosion away from Predator cities, after having lured all the Aliens to it) - climax of the Queen-Lex fight - Aftermath (Lex returning to Earth, farewells and the Antarctica finale - Queen dies and we 'see' it via submarine sonar - first bleeps, then silence... She is not moving anymore...)

That would end the Queen continuity danger from AVP... She would die at the end, without we ever seeing her... This could enable a different Queen to be used in this movie, bigger or smaller (probably the height in 'Aliens') and with slight variations depending on the host chosen... could be a Predator, could be a four-legged animal...)


PS - In the aftermath, before Lex departs towards Earth, Predators enter the Hive and scout the surrounding areas to make sure the eggs outside the 'Warehouse' are all destroyed... This 'Warehouse' is only shown to us, Lex remains unaware of why the Aliens would gather an army and attack, dead on, armed Predators...


So, she would be unaware of this the entire movie...

See, a little backstabbing her as well...

So, I hope to have explained things well but if not, I hope you'll let me know...

In the meantime, don't be shy, all of you... post your AVP2 storylines, with everything you would want to see in an AVP sequel... could be the second, or third, or fourth...

And remember, even if you disliked the first, there is always chance to correct things...It only takes patience and imagination...

 

     

     
     

[SiL]

The two PREDATOR movies showed the Predators have the ability to learn our language, right...?

Wrong. They can mimick, but there's no indication they truly understand. I've got a budgie which says 'Good morning' all the time, but I wouldn't go so far as to say he knows what the words mean.

When the Predator at the end of P2 said 'Take it', again I thought it was more mimicking what he'd be told when he'd recieved it, than actually knowing the words. Association, not understanding.

Why keep them just mimicking one-liners

Hunting technique.

We can have him speak English provided we give him a proper, credible background...

You can't. The backlash wouldn't be worth it.

About the Predators lives, this would not be focused extensively, like you fear... It would be done with subtlety and timing...

You're still romanticising and humanising something which is not meant to be either. These aren't humans with funny faces, stop trying to make them so.

It could be done while the Predator was showing her the ropes, giving her an exposition of Predator life, why they hunt and so on...

I believe I summed it up best when I said Dear. God. No. the first time.

showing that their prey was carefully selected and never innocents like women or children, sick people, old people, and pregnant women

We already know this. There's no reason to make a big thing of something so definitely established.

And you think this is not cause for concern...? Fans who wish people to die horribly because it gives them thrills...?

Of course it's cause for concern. But I think turning the Predators into affable care bears who really aren't all that mean but just misunderstood - Aw, cute ^_^ - is exactly the wrong way to resolve the problem.

gore is not needed to d a good movie, a story is...

And quite frankly yours sucks.

[qute]All this to say that I am not surprised why you dislike my story...It needs an open spirit to allow the exploration of the unknown, NOT the repetition of the known...[/quote]

Ah, another internet psychoanalyst who can penetrate my id and ego and all the rest of it to truly understand why I feel the way I do. But you're wrong. I'm all for expansion. I just think your idea is bad.   

You don't even give benefit of the doubt to different approaches to the characters and mythos...

Your idea of change is making them the polar opposite of what they are. It's like making March of the Penguins with polar bears.

YOU have to agree you were shocked by my storyline, were you not...?

At how anyone could think of something so ridiculous, yes.

What you want is to take the Predator, and turn it into a person with a weird face. The Predators are alien, there could be so much room for expansion in weird and whacky ways, truly ingenius ideas that could revitalise our fascination with them, and all you want to do is make them the ideal human being, with honour, respect, and all that jazz.

It's bullshit, plain and simple. It's not revolutionary, it's not the next great big step into the franchise. The Predator is based around the fear of us being hunted, the fear of something superior to us overpowering us, making us weak, our efforts futile. Putting us in our place.

This is why so many sequels and remakes are sub-par to the original - The filmmakers don't understand how or why something work, they just transpose the end result into something else and assume people will still like it. Man is the big guy, the tough guy, we're the best. And here's this thing, this mighty thing, larger than us, more powerful, stealthier, more technologically advanced, treating us like mere animals. All we hold in such high regard is torn away by the mere existance of this being.

And you want to totally ignore that and put us on a level playing field. That's not the point of the Predators, that's not what they're all about. Sure, you can change them, make them more elaborate, but if you lose that core then you're going to miss the mark by a mile and people are going to resent it.

[Mike’s Monsters]

Well, Rilyreign,

thanks for the compliment... 'Imagination' is the keyword  here...

What I get no compliment for that? I said it too! Sheesh! Where's the love? lol j/k!

dude this would be a great fan comic...

See! Perfect idea for a comic! I knew I wasn't on crack! I can have good ideas sometimes!

[RIJOENPIAL]

Well, Rilyreign,

thanks for the compliment... 'Imagination' is the keyword  here...

What I get no compliment for that? I said it too! Sheesh! Where's the love? lol j/k!

dude this would be a great fan comic...

See! Perfect idea for a comic! I knew I wasn't on crack! I can have good ideas sometimes!

Sorry, Mikey...my bad... You the man too...

And... the best stories I've seen over the past few years were in comics, especially the Batman ones... (NOTE: BEFORE Jennette Kahn and Denny O'Neil left DC...) When creativity is at its lowest as far as screenwriters and Hollywood are concerned, then comics would be (and are) the next best thing...and if you've read BATMAN: YEAR ONE, or THE LONG HALLOWEEN or KINGDOM COME, you know that comics will (again, already are) the next source of inspiration in Hollywood... see the amount of comicbook teams and characters making to the silver screen...?! Do you still doubt comics are that bad a thing, when there is nothing else out there...?

I leave it to you, guys, to decide...

[RIJOENPIAL]

The two PREDATOR movies showed the Predators have the ability to learn our language, right...?

Wrong. They can mimick, but there's no indication they truly understand. I've got a budgie which says 'Good morning' all the time, but I wouldn't go so far as to say he knows what the words mean.

When the Predator at the end of P2 said 'Take it', again I thought it was more mimicking what he'd be told when he'd recieved it, than actually knowing the words. Association, not understanding.

Why keep them just mimicking one-liners

Hunting technique.

We can have him speak English provided we give him a proper, credible background...

You can't. The backlash wouldn't be worth it.

About the Predators lives, this would not be focused extensively, like you fear... It would be done with subtlety and timing...

You're still romanticising and humanising something which is not meant to be either. These aren't humans with funny faces, stop trying to make them so.

It could be done while the Predator was showing her the ropes, giving her an exposition of Predator life, why they hunt and so on...

I believe I summed it up best when I said Dear. God. No. the first time.

showing that their prey was carefully selected and never innocents like women or children, sick people, old people, and pregnant women

We already know this. There's no reason to make a big thing of something so definitely established.

And you think this is not cause for concern...? Fans who wish people to die horribly because it gives them thrills...?

Of course it's cause for concern. But I think turning the Predators into affable care bears who really aren't all that mean but just misunderstood - Aw, cute ^_^ - is exactly the wrong way to resolve the problem.

gore is not needed to d a good movie, a story is...

And quite frankly yours sucks.

[qute]All this to say that I am not surprised why you dislike my story...It needs an open spirit to allow the exploration of the unknown, NOT the repetition of the known...

Ah, another internet psychoanalyst who can penetrate my id and ego and all the rest of it to truly understand why I feel the way I do. But you're wrong. I'm all for expansion. I just think your idea is bad.   

You don't even give benefit of the doubt to different approaches to the characters and mythos...

Your idea of change is making them the polar opposite of what they are. It's like making March of the Penguins with polar bears.

YOU have to agree you were shocked by my storyline, were you not...?

At how anyone could think of something so ridiculous, yes.

What you want is to take the Predator, and turn it into a person with a weird face. The Predators are alien, there could be so much room for expansion in weird and whacky ways, truly ingenius ideas that could revitalise our fascination with them, and all you want to do is make them the ideal human being, with honour, respect, and all that jazz.

It's bullshit, plain and simple. It's not revolutionary, it's not the next great big step into the franchise. The Predator is based around the fear of us being hunted, the fear of something superior to us overpowering us, making us weak, our efforts futile. Putting us in our place.

This is why so many sequels and remakes are sub-par to the original - The filmmakers don't understand how or why something work, they just transpose the end result into something else and assume people will still like it. Man is the big guy, the tough guy, we're the best. And here's this thing, this mighty thing, larger than us, more powerful, stealthier, more technologically advanced, treating us like mere animals. All we hold in such high regard is torn away by the mere existance of this being.

And you want to totally ignore that and put us on a level playing field. That's not the point of the Predators, that's not what they're all about. Sure, you can change them, make them more elaborate, but if you lose that core then you're going to miss the mark by a mile and people are going to resent it.
[/quote]
__________________________________________________________________
RIJOENPIAL:  (Sorry about this weird layout, but something went wrong with it... )

Ok, let me answer this accordingly...

We DON'T know that...better yet, why would they mimick language just to do one-liners...? It makes no sense, realistically speaking... And we have no info pretending to what you've said... they have technology to record human language... and they KNOW when to use that language... remember the 'you're one ugly...' and then '...Mother f-u-c-k-e-r...' or the 'What the hell are you? from the first Pred...  This implies they understand and can make language associations...

Nevertheless, we don't know that FOR SURE, being an arguable point, mine and yours, because we don't have enough info pertaining to what you said...I am evolving it from what we know...

Second, fans puritanism and intolerance toward change, even changes realistically input, is bad, no matter what you may think... People have to acknowledge that being inflexible to change is what our grandparents do, not what young, learning, tolerant people do... If all you want is a mere re-hatch of the first ones, then just tell Fox to save money, because all you need is to watch the first movies over and over again... why make a third Predator or a fifth Alien IF NOT to evolve the story and the universe they're in...? That is my major disappointment about my fellow fans... Pred and Alien will never evolve if all you want is to see the same things over and over again... take my word for it...

Ok, trying to ignore your rudeness, I say only this: It is because of fans like you that AVP was made... It is because of intolerant, impervious to evolution, not change, fans like you, that the Alien 5 script was dropped, and we had AVP instead... And it is because of fans like you that the Alien and Predator franchises are dying... And fans know that without an injection of new blood, these franchises will be dead by the end of AVP2, if not DURING it...

So, instead of gloating about you being right about your puritanism and impermeability to evolution AND change, maybe you should be looking inwards, trying to understand why the franchises are in the decaying state they are right now, instead of shutting any attempt to inject some new blood or just make things evolve, rather than stagnate for the fake  comfort it brings you...

From what you know from the movies, the Predators CAN talk, with or without the mask... Selon the movies, you can add several things into the mythos...

And, Sil, this is the last time i am going to say this, what looks arguable on paper can become magnificent, provided you have the right screenwriter, director, art direction and production design departments... Not to mention Stan Winston's quality into it...

To finalise this, I have to say that we have AVP and AVP2 instead of an Alien 5 or a Predator 3 EXACTLY  because of the 'loi du moins effort' I have been telling before... It is so much easier and so much cheaper and so less demanding to do a brainless, clichéd, rushed movie, than a really original one or at least, a courageous one...

Once I saw the opening credits of Alien 3, I knew I was going to like it... I saw  the 2 Alien movies before watching the third, and it blew me away... how brave it was, how gothic, how heroic... I saw it in 1992 and watched it THREE times in a row... It was such a breath of fresh air that I, erroneously, thought this would be how movies would be made from then on... except for a few, including the SEVEN masterpiece, I was disappointed to see that they were the exception, and not the rule...

So, SiL, of course you are entitled to your opinion... even though I completely disagree with you... And I understand the false sense of comfort and security you want from nobody touching what precedes it, but there is a lot of things that need explanation, not yours, but on-screen explanation: why they 'mimick' our language, why they hunt, being so technologically advanced and all; why did they kill king Willie, who had no weapons and posed no threat (unless they KNEW he was a drug lord and chose to destroy him, giving the Pred an agenda that needs, better yet, requires clarification...)

See, just from the top of my head, there are a lot of things that need explanation... another one, why the Aztec motifs in the Predator's ship at the end of Pred2...?

PS - You ASSUME a lot of things about a character that is so underdone like the Predator is... First of all, you don't have enough assertive info about it...you see him passing by, just hunting... you don't know why, you don't know anything about him, only what you ASSUME he is and why he does what he does...

I was making a step forward, and excuse me for asking you this, but you do WANT the Predator to remain unidimensional, don't you...? Just a killing machine, without pity (which he does), without remorse, without any traits that makes it identifiable to the viewer...?  And you think that's smart... and realistic... A humanoid character who hunts people, animals for trophees, but only the worthy; who uses advanced technology to hunt, who has a homeworld somewhere, who lives among others in a clan, travelling on a spaceship, who hunts only in the hottest years or seasons, who is 'drawn by heat and conflict' (Gary Busey, Pred2)... This is all we know and you think this is more than enough...? And how more human do you want Predator to be: a hunter, with rules of engagement (only relevant threats, armed and otherwise...), humanoid, with a sense of irony with his use of our language to taunt us (giving him a 'human' agenda and motivations)...

If you do sincerely think that, I respect your op, though I firmly disagree...

The look of the Predator is only a problem to you, not me... he is humanoid with dreadlocks, so apart from the visage, he is just as human (bipede and with arms and fingers... with his mask on, he could pass as human... his silhouette at far would be that of a human...) as we are, though stronger physically, and with different skin, of course... Why do you think they chose a humanoid form Predator and not an octopuss-like Alien...?

I realised that you think that Predator has a subtext (which he does not) and it grosses you having a human female enamorated with a Predator and vice-versa, and you think love is just kisses and sex... It is surely not, but I don't expct you at your tender age to understand this... I was aiming for a more mature, in the adult sense of the word, love relationship, not a teenager 'kiss and seconds later, sex' crap... There are inumerous ways to show love, and not all of them are physical...platonic, forbidden, unwanted, etc...

So (and this is getting too long now) I have to say that the only movies that nowadays add something are the ones that think 'outside the box', that are brave enough to take the next step and do something never done before...

No matter how puritain and intolerant and manicheistic and dull the audiences have become, movies should shake them out of the apathy and false sense of comfort they're in... Those are the only movies that become classics, not 'by-the-book' movies or 'let's give them what they want' utter crap...         

You reaction, Sil, didn't surprise me at all... your pride in being intolerant and protectionist, yes... 'kill the heretic',  you say... It sound an awful lot like the Medieval times so, you see, people don't change at all...

I hope that one day, things will be so bad that the coward Hollywood has no other choice but to invest in the unknown... higher up their standards and be mature about it...

Untl then, we have AVP and its sequels...

PS: Oh, and by the way, SiL, you have a lot of nerve proclaiming that you know better than writers and directors... All you got is easy POVs, they're doing hard work to make it work... So stop being arrogant about it... I respect their work, but if you are going to do a sequel, you have to respect it, then take the next step, not be puerile about it...'I like what i have, so just repeat it' kinda nonsense...

If Fox or any other studio thought like you did, man, how boring movies would be...without the guts to take it one step further...

Like I said, you are a perfect example of why Hollywood is the way it is, making flavourless sequels after sequels... so think again...


PPS: ...And forgive me for coming down too hard on you...I am just disappointed...

Peace...




 

[Anonymous684]

RIJOENPIAL, my post was just a prolouge.

[RIJOENPIAL]

RIJOENPIAL, my post was just a prolouge.

I thought so... It was quite good... suspenseful...terrifying...what is lurking there...?(alien is not visible...good) though you should not make him too lurky...it gives it a too much human trait... he is not a psycho-killer... you have to make things look like 'he was behind me one second and gone the next...' kinda thing... though the hay field would look a lot like 'Lost world' with the raptors trails from above, remember...? The catch here is from time to time, surprise the viewer...

But this thriller, horror suspense is good... That is definitely one way to go...

It got me interested in the rest... so cough it up, man... 

How would you build on that prologue...?

[Anonymous684]

well im working on the story ill give u the what i had in mind next just a taste.

Ok so if you go back reading that it was the Dutch family (Dutch = Arnie=Predator) 

so they have a funeral and such for criss and then they bring in Dutch from predator,and in his mind he knows what did the horrible things to his son, and............


Now ofc i wont type it up like that but thats the idea.

[RIJOENPIAL]

well im working on the story ill give u the what i had in mind next just a taste.

Ok so if you go back reading that it was the Dutch family (Dutch = Arnie=Predator) 

so they have a funeral and such for criss and then they bring in Dutch from predator,and in his mind he knows what did the horrible things to his son, and............


Now ofc i wont type it up like that but thats the idea.

Boy, that man has no rest... first a Predator, now an ALien... Boy... 

[SiL]

I had a long post written, but it wasn't worth it. So here it is in simpler form.

1. Hunters buy special whistles which mimick specific calls of specific birds, for example the mating call of a duck or something. These hunters aren't trying to communicate with the birds, learn their language, try to form strong familial bonds. They're luring them in. Mimickry is a survival mechanism for some animals and a hunting strategy for others. There doesn't have to be any great sentiency to it than that, and by the looks of it there isn't. It's a natural trait of the Predators.

2. The questions you raised can be answered simply by looking at the films and paying attention. Why does it kill King Willy? He pulled out two swords and went into a fighting stance. Why are there Aztec motifs in the Pred ship? Pay attention to AvP - They aren't Aztec motifs, they're Predator motifs which were adapted into the Aztec language, seeing as Predators helped make the first human civilisation. Why do they hunt? Thrill, religion, sport.

3. I am not closed off to change, I welcome it. I simply think your idea is a bad one. It's that simple. Change in itself is not good; Originality in itself is not good; Being bold in itself is not good. It needs something solid backing it, and I simply don't think your idea has that. That doesn't mean I'm opposed to all change, like you seem to think, just your idea of change.

Why not try something that's actually new? You're taking Star Trek, wherein all of the alien species are people who look funny, transposing it to Predators and waving it around like the new revolutionary evolutionary step in the mythos. Cant they have a culture which is strange to us? Must they be people who look different? Can't they have different social structures, cultural assumptions?

You talk to me about being closed to change, yet that's exactly what you're doing: Being closed to the possibility of difference. I want my Predators to be alien. I want them to have different structures, different beliefs that are not my own. I don't much care for the idea that they're just hunters - Maybe it's form of religion, a favourite past-time, a popular sport - but I don't agree that we should impose human emotions, motivations, ideals and morals onto them when they are not us.

Yet you, on the other hand, see a humanoid and immediately impose humanity on to them. Be different.

Also, when I say there is some deeper meaning to the Predator ... you scoff. You, the saviour of the franchise, and you're not even willing to dig deeper into what is already presented. You take it at face value, you don't bother to try and find anything deeper than the superficial form.

4. Stop acting like you know two things about me, because you clearly don't. Your internet pschoanalyst part is funny, but annoying.

Through me disagreeing with you you seem to be able to construct this complete psychological profile on how I view the world and how I feel the security of homeostasis should never be disrupted by the harsh reality of transeostasis (sp). I am some snivelling welp, a mere neusance, the cause of all that is wrong with Hollywood for condoning only the static and repetitious nature of film. I am not worthy to lick the ground you walk on, nor am I worthy to dare think I know better than writers and directors.

...Yeah, no. I just don't like your idea. No deeper meaning to it than that.

And as for the 'You've got a lot of nerve pretending you know better than writers and directors', I'm both. Helps to know what the hell you're talking about before you go running your mouth off at people

5. I don't think love is just sex, I am not in some 'tender age'. I am not repulsed by the idea of interspecies relationships - although I can't say I condone it - but I think it is inappropriate. The Predators hunt as and kill us for the thrill of the hunt, for the rush, or whatever else. They treat us like animals, they butcher us. These things are well above us, and as we've seen would only call our help if it was the last viable option. Even then I don't think they'd kidnap people to come help them.

To this end I think Robert Rodriguez's idea of having Dutch and Harrigan kidnapped and placed in a gladitorial arena was a good idea. It expands who and what the Predators are, it's in keeping with what we know but it also gives us something new.

I'd rather not empathise with the Predators. Lex can, that's fine. She can get as lovey-dovey as she wants. But I'd rather an air of indifference. I still want the Predators to have menace, and I think making the audience fall in love with them is completely going against their nature, which I outlined, and which you ignored because it doesn't work for you or something.

Keeping an air of menace to the creature, at least, would be welcome. Like they could change at any moment and gut the people. Or keep us indifferent. Make us not truly able to fully empathise, but at least understand them.

6. I know it really does come down to the execution, but if you can't sell it on paper, you're never going to get to that stage. Evolve the Predators, add and making them more multi-faceted, but never lose sight of what is at their core; The menace of us being overpowered, made no better than the animals around us.

[Trioxide]

My god!! So much text!  It's like the Great Flood...only with words   

[RIJOENPIAL]

I had a long post written, but it wasn't worth it. So here it is in simpler form.

1. Hunters buy special whistles which mimick specific calls of specific birds, for example the mating call of a duck or something. These hunters aren't trying to communicate with the birds, learn their language, try to form strong familial bonds. They're luring them in. Mimickry is a survival mechanism for some animals and a hunting strategy for others. There doesn't have to be any great sentiency to it than that, and by the looks of it there isn't. It's a natural trait of the Predators.

2. The questions you raised can be answered simply by looking at the films and paying attention. Why does it kill King Willy? He pulled out two swords and went into a fighting stance. Why are there Aztec motifs in the Pred ship? Pay attention to AvP - They aren't Aztec motifs, they're Predator motifs which were adapted into the Aztec language, seeing as Predators helped make the first human civilisation. Why do they hunt? Thrill, religion, sport.

3. I am not closed off to change, I welcome it. I simply think your idea is a bad one. It's that simple. Change in itself is not good; Originality in itself is not good; Being bold in itself is not good. It needs something solid backing it, and I simply don't think your idea has that. That doesn't mean I'm opposed to all change, like you seem to think, just your idea of change.

Why not try something that's actually new? You're taking Star Trek, wherein all of the alien species are people who look funny, transposing it to Predators and waving it around like the new revolutionary evolutionary step in the mythos. Cant they have a culture which is strange to us? Must they be people who look different? Can't they have different social structures, cultural assumptions?

You talk to me about being closed to change, yet that's exactly what you're doing: Being closed to the possibility of difference. I want my Predators to be alien. I want them to have different structures, different beliefs that are not my own. I don't much care for the idea that they're just hunters - Maybe it's form of religion, a favourite past-time, a popular sport - but I don't agree that we should impose human emotions, motivations, ideals and morals onto them when they are not us.

Yet you, on the other hand, see a humanoid and immediately impose humanity on to them. Be different.

Also, when I say there is some deeper meaning to the Predator ... you scoff. You, the saviour of the franchise, and you're not even willing to dig deeper into what is already presented. You take it at face value, you don't bother to try and find anything deeper than the superficial form.

4. Stop acting like you know two things about me, because you clearly don't. Your internet pschoanalyst part is funny, but annoying.

Through me disagreeing with you you seem to be able to construct this complete psychological profile on how I view the world and how I feel the security of homeostasis should never be disrupted by the harsh reality of transeostasis (sp). I am some snivelling welp, a mere neusance, the cause of all that is wrong with Hollywood for condoning only the static and repetitious nature of film. I am not worthy to lick the ground you walk on, nor am I worthy to dare think I know better than writers and directors.

...Yeah, no. I just don't like your idea. No deeper meaning to it than that.

And as for the 'You've got a lot of nerve pretending you know better than writers and directors', I'm both. Helps to know what the hell you're talking about before you go running your mouth off at people

5. I don't think love is just sex, I am not in some 'tender age'. I am not repulsed by the idea of interspecies relationships - although I can't say I condone it - but I think it is inappropriate. The Predators hunt as and kill us for the thrill of the hunt, for the rush, or whatever else. They treat us like animals, they butcher us. These things are well above us, and as we've seen would only call our help if it was the last viable option. Even then I don't think they'd kidnap people to come help them.

To this end I think Robert Rodriguez's idea of having Dutch and Harrigan kidnapped and placed in a gladitorial arena was a good idea. It expands who and what the Predators are, it's in keeping with what we know but it also gives us something new.

I'd rather not empathise with the Predators. Lex can, that's fine. She can get as lovey-dovey as she wants. But I'd rather an air of indifference. I still want the Predators to have menace, and I think making the audience fall in love with them is completely going against their nature, which I outlined, and which you ignored because it doesn't work for you or something.

Keeping an air of menace to the creature, at least, would be welcome. Like they could change at any moment and gut the people. Or keep us indifferent. Make us not truly able to fully empathise, but at least understand them.

6. I know it really does come down to the execution, but if you can't sell it on paper, you're never going to get to that stage. Evolve the Predators, add and making them more multi-faceted, but never lose sight of what is at their core; The menace of us being overpowered, made no better than the animals around us.

1. You must be joking, right...? A humanoid hunter mimicking sounds for mélange purposes...? he is not an animal protecting itself in the wilds, like animals do... so until you give evidence of that in the Pred movies (evidence, not POVs), I'll stick to the movies...or better yet, what the movies imply, but don't say...The movies don't show much of the Predators to mak what you said more than a POV...Remember, the movie was focused on the human characters...

2. About King Willie, The Predator shows himself to King Willie BEFORE Willie pulls out his sword... So you're the one not paying attention there... he already targeted King Willie BEFORE landing on the puddle of water... So, you should go back and see it again...
About the motifs, Stephen Hopkins, on the Predator 2 commentary, says that the Predator ship's walls were designed with Aztec motifs, so I am not making stuff up... Check it out and come back to me...
Third question: you and I DO NOT KNOW why they hunt... you just don't know... I don't know... what you see in the movies is not enough to explain why they do it... you only have humans trying to explain why he does what he does... so, there is a lot there to explore... Again, see the movies carefully...

3. Yes, your past arguments show you welcome change, all right...
I ask you this directly: does AVP2's setting please you? Aliens on a small town, wreaking havoc and neutralising Alien continuity...? Your answer will clarify your position about 'change'...

About your take on my 'psychoanalysis', actually, I was talking broadly, but it seems the shoe fit...otherwise, why feel thretened and thinking I was talking specifically about you...?
I wonder...

So, you're a writer and a director...Ever directed anything on this scale, with studios breathing down your neck, with killer schedules and budget...? If you did, then you, of all people, would respect them, so there you go...

Yes, about the Predators treating us like animals, they sure do...That is why Pred 1 fights Dutch in 'gladiator' style, because he though he was just an animal... That is why the Elder in Pred 2 gave the gun to Harrigan, because Harrigan was just an animal... Come on, give me a break... Would they respect an animal... would they respect Aliens for killing one of the Predators, just handing it a souvenir or something...? You  make me laugh sometimes, SiL...

AGAIN, stick to the movies... The Preds and AVP, the only canon you got...

And the final nail... So, you  think my story was bogus, but a 'Gladiator' in space is so much better... 

SiL, I know this is difficult to muster, but the Predators in hunter mode will always be menacing, no matter how sympathetic they are with those they respect...Did Hitler lose his menacing persona jus because he laughed and played with his dog...? I don't think so... 
Did they lose any menacing traits just by respecting their victorious opponents...? The Predators were not portrayed as psychotic killers, killing everything that moves, but warriors with honour codes (only hunt armed people - soldiers, cops, drug dealers, etc...- and never pregnant women (Leona) even though she was armed and killed people, or sick people or women, children, etc...(the child cemetery thing in Pred 2 is clear about this - the child was only a threat because he was wielding a gun, but not after the Pred saw it was a toy, not a real gun...) Would a vicious killer hunting humans for the hell of it make that distinction...? I think not... So, to me, this is what differentiates the Predator from the Xenomorph... The Xeno kills people indiscriminately, the Predator doesn't... That is why people feels more identified with the Pred than with the Xeno...

Last but not least, the Predator is a threat to his prey, not his allies... They would be as vicious as always against the xenos, but not against Lex, her being an ally and such...

But i could add this to make you relax a bit (not crossing my fingers though):

Presentation of Lex at the beginning of the story: Lex being pursued down an alley, and before she could fight her stalker, the Predator imitates his voice, distracting him and making him check where the voice was coming from... after a while, after teasing him to desperation, the Predator shows himself and makes him run against a wall... Lex holds the Predator saying he is not worth it, after which she kicks the assailant... We would see there she was more mature now, more secure, more capable... a first glimpse of the training she had undertaken over the past few months... She would say to the Predator she had everything under control... This Predator would be summoning her to accompany him... Dutch and Harrigan would be off-screen... We would only be seing in each of the Predators ships a screen with a pic of Dutch and Harrigan... we would only know they were not going to the Predator's homeworld because we would see the others predators arriving without them...

So, like I said, just by doing things visually, we would know what was happening... if well done...

Mel Gibson's 'Apocalypto' did not have people speaking English and that did not make the movie bad in any way... So it is not like if it was never done before, that sort of movie spoken in an not-understandable language with subtitles... That would be how I would sell the movie, if the 'Predator speaking American' trait was too over the edge...

So, I know how and when I would adapt this story, and every story adapts itself to any audience, provided we, who write it, give space for it to adapt and breathe... Lex would give the human perspective...

Like I said, The Predators aren't barbarian killers, and we know this, and I am curious to know how they live, how they train thier whole lives to be better than their prey... And I surely need an explanation as to why they hunt cloaked instead of fighting their prey without gadgets and weapons... It is like an unmatched hunt there...hunting humans cloaked and hitting them from nehind (like they did on Pred1 with Blain's character...) I never quite swallowed it... It showed them being cowards... I know that the self-destruct device was to prevent them from being captured... but we don't know if elsewhere, where they hunt, they would use the same strategies they used here on Earth...

Any new movie about the Predators should explain these things instead of just regurgitating the same things you defend as trademarks...

So, SiL, there you have... I am no psychoanalist, but from your reaction it looks I may have hit a little closer to home than I expected... Why else would the 'shoe' 'fit' like that...?

I was being general, you took it personally... Even though I posted the quote, at this point, I was giving my take on a lot of POVs I read here, and I was being generalistic about it, never mentioning names, knowing that those targeted would know who they were... That would safeguard them, and this criticism was aiming at personal inward thinking, not outward outbursts...

So, you took it personally... You shouldn't have...It was never intended to be so...




 

   



 

[SiL]

1. You must be joking, right...? A humanoid hunter mimicking sounds for mélange purposes...?

Hunting purposes. But oh, too mundane. Sorry

2. About King Willie, The Predator shows himself before King Willie BEFORE Willie pulls out his sword..

He was still armed. And he didn't attack until Willie bared arms.

About the motifs, Stephen Hopkins, on the Prdator 2 commentary, says that the Predator ship's walls were designed with Aztec motifs, so I am not making stuff up...

Anderson expanded the idea by making it retrospective. Come on, man, this whole thread's about change, and that's what Anderson did. He took the motifs and ran with it, created a whole new story.

3. yes, your past arguments show you welcome change, all right...

Our past conversations regarding change begin and end in this thread. I wonder ...

Your answer will clarify your position...

No it won't, so I won't bother answering.

About your take on my 'psychoanalysis', actually, I was talking broadly, but it seems the shoe fit...otherwise, why feel thretened and thinking I was talking specifically about you...?

Your use of the singular version of the word 'you' kind of gives the impression. You're also a patronising asshole.

So, you're a writer and a director...Ever directed anything on this scale, with studios breathing down your neck, with killer schedules and budget...? If you did, then you, of all people, would respect them, so there you go...

I have no reason to respect people who make shit movies. You don't get mark for 'good effort', you get marks for the result. If the result is bad, I will criticise it.

Yes, about the Predators treating us like animals, they sure do...that is why Pred 1 fight a gladiator fifght with Dutch, because he though he was just an animal... Tha is why the Elder in Pred 2 gave the gun to Harrigan, because Harrigan was just an animal...

All of these instances taking place after the ruthless slaughter of plenty of people ...

You  make me laugh sometimes, SiL...

Oh, trust me, the feeling's mutual

That would be how I would sell the movie, if the 'Predator speaking American' trait was too over the edge...

Oh my God, you're so concieted you call it the American language

So, SiL, there you have... I am no psychoanalist, but from your reaction it looks I may have hit closer to home than I expected...

Not if you bothered paying attention. I was pissed that you were egotistical enough to assume you could do that, not because you actually did pick apart my wiltered id

Why else would the 'shoe' would 'fit'...?

Dunno, why else would the shoe would fit?

[RIJOENPIAL]

1. You must be joking, right...? A humanoid hunter mimicking sounds for mélange purposes...?

Hunting purposes. But oh, too mundane. Sorry

2. About King Willie, The Predator shows himself before King Willie BEFORE Willie pulls out his sword..

He was still armed. And he didn't attack until Willie bared arms.

About the motifs, Stephen Hopkins, on the Prdator 2 commentary, says that the Predator ship's walls were designed with Aztec motifs, so I am not making stuff up...

Anderson expanded the idea by making it retrospective. Come on, man, this whole thread's about change, and that's what Anderson did. He took the motifs and ran with it, created a whole new story.

3. yes, your past arguments show you welcome change, all right...

Our past conversations regarding change begin and end in this thread. I wonder ...

Your answer will clarify your position...

No it won't, so I won't bother answering.

About your take on my 'psychoanalysis', actually, I was talking broadly, but it seems the shoe fit...otherwise, why feel thretened and thinking I was talking specifically about you...?

Your use of the singular version of the word 'you' kind of gives the impression. You're also a patronising asshole.

So, you're a writer and a director...Ever directed anything on this scale, with studios breathing down your neck, with killer schedules and budget...? If you did, then you, of all people, would respect them, so there you go...

I have no reason to respect people who make shit movies. You don't get mark for 'good effort', you get marks for the result. If the result is bad, I will criticise it.

Yes, about the Predators treating us like animals, they sure do...that is why Pred 1 fight a gladiator fifght with Dutch, because he though he was just an animal... Tha is why the Elder in Pred 2 gave the gun to Harrigan, because Harrigan was just an animal...

All of these instances taking place after the ruthless slaughter of plenty of people ...

You  make me laugh sometimes, SiL...

Oh, trust me, the feeling's mutual

That would be how I would sell the movie, if the 'Predator speaking American' trait was too over the edge...

Oh my God, you're so concieted you call it the American language

So, SiL, there you have... I am no psychoanalist, but from your reaction it looks I may have hit closer to home than I expected...

Not if you bothered paying attention. I was pissed that you were egotistical enough to assume you could do that, not because you actually did pick apart my wiltered id

Why else would the 'shoe' would 'fit'...?

Dunno, why else would the shoe would fit?

Well, well, SiL, temper...temper... you know that whenever you start namecalling, you conceed your ground...?

So, I rest my case about you then...

Moving along, this is not the goal of this thread, to start badgering each other...

It is all about people who criticise AVP to write what their sequel would be... not personal attacks and namecalling...

Not that it offended me in any way... that shoe doesn't fit me, so...

So, I know how you feel, SiL, so let me get this back on track and on a mature tone, and enable people to post their stories...

I said before, it is easy to criticise for the hell of it... now making it constructive is something else entirely...

PS - And your last remark repeating my typo said all about your state of mind...

[Dachande]

....ok, lets look at the facts here, out of ALL the people that have posted in this thread, only one has said your idea was good, but that it should only be interpreted into a comic. Now if EVERYBODY else in this topic has said your idea is terrible its time to take a hint, and stop writting up hunded words essays on why your right and their wrong