What if Gorman was a veteran?

Started by blood., Feb 23, 2014, 09:42:10 AM

Author
What if Gorman was a veteran? (Read 8,852 times)

Xenomorphine

Xenomorphine

#120
That flash game... I'd forgotten where it was, since changing my system.

Fiendishly difficult.

oberonqa

oberonqa

#121
Frankly the entire mission was a bust from it's inception due to Burke being there representing corporate interests.  The team basically disregarded Ripley's report (I have to question if they even read the disc that was referenced in the briefing).  Gormon being there with more experience, as others in the thread have posted, probably wouldn't have changed the outcome.  They were not prepared for what they were walking into and the one person on the mission who could have put the brakes on the mission to ensure a higher chance of success was a greedy suit who saw the entire thing as an opportunity to climb a few rungs in the corporate ladder. 

Heck... it's entirely possible Burke may have had a hand in getting Gormon assigned to the unit specifically because of his inexperience and therefore willing compliance with maintaining a good relationship between the USCM and W:Y.  A more experienced and veteran CO would have been more cautious during the initial sweep... probably only sending a small team into the nest instead of the entire unit... and would have known about the danger to the cooling units from weapons prior to the unit entering the structure (shake and bake colony, remember - atmosphere processors weren't a new thing) and would have compensated for the change to the rules of engagement accordingly.

A better question to ask would be what if Burke hadn't gone along?

JokersWarPig

JokersWarPig

#122
Quote from: Elmazalman on Feb 23, 2014, 11:36:33 PM
Hudson was a prime example of 'courage under fire'.

I feel like courage under fire and courage under everyone you know getting killed by a xenomorph are two very different things

RagingDragon

RagingDragon

#123
Quote from: oberonqa on May 10, 2014, 02:37:53 PM
Frankly the entire mission was a bust from it's inception due to Burke being there representing corporate interests.  The team basically disregarded Ripley's report (I have to question if they even read the disc that was referenced in the briefing).  Gormon being there with more experience, as others in the thread have posted, probably wouldn't have changed the outcome.  They were not prepared for what they were walking into and the one person on the mission who could have put the brakes on the mission to ensure a higher chance of success was a greedy suit who saw the entire thing as an opportunity to climb a few rungs in the corporate ladder. 

Heck... it's entirely possible Burke may have had a hand in getting Gormon assigned to the unit specifically because of his inexperience and therefore willing compliance with maintaining a good relationship between the USCM and W:Y.  A more experienced and veteran CO would have been more cautious during the initial sweep... probably only sending a small team into the nest instead of the entire unit... and would have known about the danger to the cooling units from weapons prior to the unit entering the structure (shake and bake colony, remember - atmosphere processors weren't a new thing) and would have compensated for the change to the rules of engagement accordingly.

A better question to ask would be what if Burke hadn't gone along?

This is a great post with some keen observations. I think that's very likely that Burke may have either had a hand in Gorman's assignment, or chose him and the 2/9th deliberately because he was a by-the-books, somewhat skittish rookie Lieutenant.

The issue that no one took Ripley seriously only compounded everything. Since we're discussing this, I have to mention that Apone was as much at fault as Gorman. Platoon Sergeants are usually the strong leaders on the ground, and the Lieutenants rely on them heavily in a real combat unit.

It's common with platoons that the PSG (Platoon Sergeant) has the most perceived authority regardless of rank. Lieutenants come and go, are constantly shifting around and getting promoted/demoted, while the PSG stays with the platoon for much longer. They know their men, and they are the fighting leader on the line while the Lt. is normally huddled with the command group, radio operator/antenna farm, FO, etc... coordinating the larger operations.

Apone put up a bit of a fight, but I feel that was a little unrealistic. He was portrayed as a very experienced, very aggressive leader that knew what he was doing, so his decision to just roll over to Gorman without any real argument or other suggestion was kind of weak.

Though it's a testament to the strength of the film as a whole that these scenarios are very believable. Everyone was spooked by the Alien itself, even the hardest veterans in their own way, and their lapses in judgment were relatable. I think the film is so well done in that regard, convincing in an area where most films fail.

Bat Chain Puller

In hindsight I'd say the whole unit was a little dysfunctional. Maybe it was written that way for entertainment value, but one could easily make an argument that this particular unit was picked because maybe they weren't the best. They were expendable. The leadership fell apart quickly and the only reason anyone survived or The Company's plan was exposed at all was because ordinary people rose the f**k up to a challenge.

This logic can also be applied to Prometheus if one was so inclined.

But at the end of the day if I were The Company (or old man Weyland) I would have paid for THE BEST OF THE BEST instead of hoping for chance infections and gambling with innumerable variables.   

Local Trouble

Quote from: RagingDragon on May 10, 2014, 06:00:32 PM
This is a great post with some keen observations. I think that's very likely that Burke may have either had a hand in Gorman's assignment, or chose him and the 2/9th deliberately because he was a by-the-books, somewhat skittish rookie Lieutenant.

Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 24, 2014, 06:54:42 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if Burke managed to pull strings with some dirty marine colonel over coke and hookers to get Gorman assigned to the mission.

RagingDragon

RagingDragon

#126
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on May 10, 2014, 07:08:41 PM
In hindsight I'd say the whole unit was a little dysfunctional. Maybe it was written that way for entertainment value, but one could easily make an argument that this particular unit was picked because maybe they weren't the best. They were expendable. The leadership fell apart quickly and the only reason anyone survived or The Company's plan was exposed at all was because ordinary people rose the f**k up to a challenge.

This logic can also be applied to Prometheus if one was so inclined.

But at the end of the day if I were The Company (or old man Weyland) I would have paid for THE BEST OF THE BEST instead of hoping for chance infections and gambling with innumerable variables.
Keep an eye out for my Prometheus fan edit, which makes Weyland the actual billionaire Tony-Stark level super-genius entrepreneur he's supposed to be. ;)

Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 24, 2014, 06:54:42 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if Burke managed to pull strings with some dirty marine colonel over coke and hookers to get Gorman assigned to the mission.
I have to have already laughed at this, but



The1PerfectOrganism

The1PerfectOrganism

#127
I will keep an eye out for your edit, but I have no idea how you'll accomplish that.

Bat Chain Puller

Yeah. I'm guessing you'll have to slip some scenes from other movies to accomplish this.

I was (at one point) toying with the idea of a fan edit ... but all that work ... I might as well make my own original movie.

RagingDragon

RagingDragon

#129
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on May 10, 2014, 10:54:04 PM
I will keep an eye out for your edit, but I have no idea how you'll accomplish that.

You'll have to let me know what you think. Don't want to derail the thread with Prometheus though. :P

Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on May 10, 2014, 11:03:44 PM
Yeah. I'm guessing you'll have to slip some scenes from other movies to accomplish this.

I was (at one point) toying with the idea of a fan edit ... but all that work ... I might as well make my own original movie.

Yeah I've been trying to find Star Wars: The Phantom Edit, just for fun, but it's been escaping me. The world of fan film edits is a fascinating one; I didn't know there were so many! Some are made by professional film editors, too. What a fun use of your spare time.

Local Trouble

Local Trouble

#130
You should check out Star Wars Revisited then.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NDEALsiYVE#ws

Xenomorphine

Xenomorphine

#131
Again, Ripley's statement about military jurisdiction makes it clear Weyland-Yutani have zero influence on Colonial Marine operations.

And, at that point, they're still convinced the Alien is a myth (or at least not worth the expense investigating). Otherwise, they'd have sent one of their own ships to retrieve some specimens and prevented anyone else getting involved. Even Burke only sent the Jordans out to see if there was anything to his client's story.

stephen

stephen

#132
Quote from: oberonqa on May 10, 2014, 02:37:53 PM
Frankly the entire mission was a bust from it's inception due to Burke being there representing corporate interests.  The team basically disregarded Ripley's report (I have to question if they even read the disc that was referenced in the briefing).  Gormon being there with more experience, as others in the thread have posted, probably wouldn't have changed the outcome.  They were not prepared for what they were walking into and the one person on the mission who could have put the brakes on the mission to ensure a higher chance of success was a greedy suit who saw the entire thing as an opportunity to climb a few rungs in the corporate ladder. 

Heck... it's entirely possible Burke may have had a hand in getting Gormon assigned to the unit specifically because of his inexperience and therefore willing compliance with maintaining a good relationship between the USCM and W:Y.  A more experienced and veteran CO would have been more cautious during the initial sweep... probably only sending a small team into the nest instead of the entire unit... and would have known about the danger to the cooling units from weapons prior to the unit entering the structure (shake and bake colony, remember - atmosphere processors weren't a new thing) and would have compensated for the change to the rules of engagement accordingly.

A better question to ask would be what if Burke hadn't gone along?

So you start out by saying that if Gorman was more experienced it wouldn't have changed the outcome but in your second paragraph you actual go on to explain that a more experienced Lt would have changed the outcome?

Burke being there or not wouldn't have changed the outcome - he had no influence on the group at all and the only time he tried to exert his influence he was very quickly rejected.  Any influence Burke had (if any) on the situation was done before he got there.

He MAY have had an influence on Gorman being selected, he may not have.  Ultimately I don't think it makes a difference.

Kimarhi

Kimarhi

#133
A grunt on the ground isn't going to listen to corporate types anyways.  The Colonel that Burke bribed was probably laughing to the bank the whole time thinking about when Burke told a Marine what to do on the ground and the corporal telling Burke to shut the f**k up. 

PRI. HUDSON

PRI. HUDSON

#134
He certainly wouldn't have made that order...that's for sure. He would have called them back, ASAP, before they alerted the hive of their presence.

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