Egg on Sulaco

Started by Darkness, Nov 01, 2006, 08:21:10 AM

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Egg on Sulaco (Read 770,012 times)

The Old One

The Old One

#3105
I imagine exactly that happened.
If the prisoners murder the wardens,
no report, no resupply.
Everyone alive starves.
No weaponry, no issue.

Local Trouble

Local Trouble

#3106
It's also possible that the prison had armed guards when it housed 5,000 inmates and they simply took their weapons with them when they left.

Voodoo Magic

Voodoo Magic

#3107
Okay, but that still really makes no sense.

Quote from: The Old One on Jul 25, 2019, 03:28:03 PM
I imagine exactly that happened.
If the prisoners murder the wardens,
no report, no resupply.
Everyone alive starves. No weaponry, no issue.

They can hold shanks to the guards and kill some, and make others communicate anything, scheme and take over resupply ships, and err... some are crazy or go crazy again who might not care if they live or die at some point?

Come on, it wasn't written with logic in mind. Just to get points from A to C.

The Old One

The Old One

#3108
I'd say the facility itself is maximum security, you don't get higher than another planet, and as rightly pointed out we see it whenever it's status is purely custodial.
I imagine most of the security measures deactivated when the refinery shut down, and it stopped being profitable.

Stitch

Stitch

#3109
If I remember correctly, it's mentioned in the novelisation that they elected to stay there. They were given the option to remain as custodians of the prison planet when the company moved most of the operations elsewhere.
Live on a prison planet that you know, with relative freedom and a small amount of pay, or relocate to another maximum security facility and deal with the rest of your sentence there? I know what I'd choose in that situation.

Voodoo Magic

Voodoo Magic

#3110
Quote from: Stitch on Jul 25, 2019, 03:52:39 PM
If I remember correctly, it's mentioned in the novelisation that they elected to stay there. They were given the option to remain as custodians of the prison planet when the company moved most of the operations elsewhere.
Live on a prison planet that you know, with relative freedom and a small amount of pay, or relocate to another maximum security facility and deal with the rest of your sentence there? I know what I'd choose in that situation.

I'd elect to stay somewhere that gave me the best chance of escape. That has to be a factor.

Quote from: The Old One on Jul 25, 2019, 03:37:44 PM
I'd say the facility itself is maximum security, you don't get higher than another planet, and as rightly pointed out we see it whenever it's status is purely custodial.
I imagine most of the security measures retired when the refinery shut down, and it stopped being profitable.

And no, your complaint isn't written with logic in mind.
Yeah, they could bargain with the two lifes they have, but what then? Where do they run? It's totally pointless.
And as W-Y showed, when push comes to shove they killed 85.

You're holding imprisoned murderers, rapists, and lunatics to logical odds and endgame scenarios? Yeah, the way I see it, I'm on the side of logic.

That honor system was conceived to remove weapons from the scenario but I find it extremely moronic, personally. Have the crash hit the weapons stronghold decimating everything but a few tasers and handguns. Write something smarter than that, right?

Samhain13

Samhain13

#3111
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jul 25, 2019, 03:54:13 PM
Quote from: Stitch on Jul 25, 2019, 03:52:39 PM
If I remember correctly, it's mentioned in the novelisation that they elected to stay there. They were given the option to remain as custodians of the prison planet when the company moved most of the operations elsewhere.
Live on a prison planet that you know, with relative freedom and a small amount of pay, or relocate to another maximum security facility and deal with the rest of your sentence there? I know what I'd choose in that situation.

I'd elect to stay somewhere that gave me the best chance of escape. That has to be a factor.

They weren't smart enough to consider that. Look at the crazy stuff they believed. They were more concerned about the arrival of the Messiah than escaping. They were crazy enough to believe staying there peacefully was the smarter choice, as they would go to heaven afterwards or whatever.

Voodoo Magic

Voodoo Magic

#3112
Quote from: Samhain13 on Jul 25, 2019, 03:58:38 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jul 25, 2019, 03:54:13 PM
Quote from: Stitch on Jul 25, 2019, 03:52:39 PM
If I remember correctly, it's mentioned in the novelisation that they elected to stay there. They were given the option to remain as custodians of the prison planet when the company moved most of the operations elsewhere.
Live on a prison planet that you know, with relative freedom and a small amount of pay, or relocate to another maximum security facility and deal with the rest of your sentence there? I know what I'd choose in that situation.

I'd elect to stay somewhere that gave me the best chance of escape. That has to be a factor.

They weren't smart enough to consider that. Look at the crazy stuff they believed. They were more concerned about the arrival of the Messiah than escaping. They were crazy enough to believe staying there peacefully was the smarter choice, as they would go to heaven afterwards or whatever.

Imagine you're a guard. Would you be willing to bet your life on it?

And wasn't there an attempt to rape Ripley? You just don't know for sure what will flip their switches.. or what they're secretly thinking.

Samhain13

Samhain13

#3113
Andrews and 85 seems to know/trust Dillon and his educational pipe enough to keep the others under control. For them the risk must have been worth the salary.

The Old One

The Old One

#3114
Indeed and;
The guards? All three of them? lol
One required to eat, one required for health and 85 who proved real worthwhile to W-Y during the film right?
Freedom isn't a factor because within the dystopia of barcoded prisoners, escape isn't realistic, and the film showed the majority of the prisoners as reasonable when led by Dillon by contrast to Golic and W-Y.

Otherwise?
Weyland-Yutani's negligence is nothing revelatory.

The Kurgan

The Kurgan

#3115
What could they really do if they decide to try and escape?

Like Old One said, no way in hell they make it off the planet.

What would they gain from making trouble? Best case scenario they get put into a real prison again, worst, they starve.

They live in relative freedom and peace. Murderer and rapists they maybe, but they are human after all, why give that up?

They supposedly also found god and we don't know how much elected to stay after serving their sentence because there is nothing better waiting for them out there.

I don't feel it is that illogical at all. Convenient to get the guns out of the game, but not illogical.

As for the guards, nobody forces them to work there. I would assume they have their own demons to work at a place like that. Like Clemens.

The Old One

The Old One

#3116
Exactly, the good Doctor himself.

Voodoo Magic

Voodoo Magic

#3117
Quote from: The Kurgan on Jul 25, 2019, 04:08:22 PM
What could they really do if they decide to try and escape?

Overrun a supply ship.

QuoteLike Old One said, no way in hell they make it off the planet.

If you're crazy, going crazy, getting crazier, that doesn't have to be the endgame. Living doesn't even have to be the endgame.

QuoteThey live in relative freedom and peace. Murderer and rapists they maybe, but they are human after all, why give that up?

As a custodian, this is a scenario you hope continues, but you can't guarantee. You can be a police officer and never fire your weapon. But you have it in case, nevertheless.

QuoteI don't feel it is that illogical at all. Convenient to get the guns out of the game, but not illogical.

It was definitely its purpose. To get in the same position of Alien.

I just find the situation highly illogical, and could have been better ways to write yourself in that situation, like the Sulaco crash wrecks the weapons cache stronghold. Fixes like these could have prevented fickle audiences from hearing phrases like maximum security prison and honor system put together.  Even Ripley thought it was ridiculous.  :)

The Kurgan

The Kurgan

#3118
We don't know how the supply ship actually drop the supplies. For all we know, they could just drop something without making contact with the ground, it could be automated or be heavily guarded.

Most of them seemed pretty sane. At least sane enough to function in the sciety they had without lashing out.

Sure, it was on purpose but for me it's an allright solution.

I always thought of the whole thing as more of a place for outcasts and people not fit for society for this or that reason than a classic prison with strict lines between guards and inmates, at the point of the movie. They created their own refuge and found comfort in routine and religion.

It works as long as the "balance" is mantained, but it's at risk when the balance is disturbed (Ripley's arrival).


Voodoo Magic

Voodoo Magic

#3119
I
Quote from: The Kurgan on Jul 25, 2019, 04:41:11 PM
We don't know how the supply ship actually drop the supplies. For all we know, they could just drop something without making contact with the ground, it could be automated or be heavily guarded.

True. It doesn't have to be supply, it could be a custodian/guard transfer. I'm certain we can dream up some scenarios.

QuoteMost of them seemed pretty sane. At least sane enough to function in the sciety they had without lashing out.

Sure, it was on purpose but for me it's an allright solution.

I always thought of the whole thing as more of a place for outcasts and people not fit for society for this or that reason than a classic prison with strict lines between guards and inmates, at the point of the movie. They created their own refuge and found comfort in routine and religion.

It works as long as the "balance" is mantained, but it's at risk when the balance is disturbed (Ripley's arrival).

I respect that it works for you. Hey, we all have our different assorted pet peeves, right? I know I do. :)

For me the Egg is less of an issue than most here, so it's always interesting what bothers people on a personal level. It's funny, in my personal experience I found in general non-fandom review commentary, the prison honor system is complained about more than the egg. (But of course, Newt and Hick's deaths have trumped them both.)  :)


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