In The News

Started by DoomRulz, Nov 30, 2012, 03:53:46 AM

Author
In The News (Read 1,401,184 times)

DoomRulz

DoomRulz

#11445
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jul 22, 2015, 06:30:50 PM
QuoteThat's a laugh. Is that why white, privileged c**ts like Emmeline Pankhurst were busy handing out white feathers as a symbol of cowardice to young men who refused to fight overseas? Sure, she was all for screaming and crying about "oppression" because she couldn't vote but blatantly ignored the fact that with the right to vote, came the responsibility of serving in the military. She was all for young boys and men (many of them living in poverty) dying needlessly overseas just so she could enjoy her cushy lifestyle, but not for actual equality which would have meant women fighting in the trenches. I'm guessing you didn't know that men and lots of them didn't have the right to vote because they came from poor families? Voting rights were tied to class status, not gender, unlike what modern history books tell us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qIndoWEkaU

What are you on? Are you saying that the reason feminism has a bad name is because of Emmeline Pankhurst?

No, she's just one example of why it does. Feminism wants equal rights without equal responsibility. The White Feather Campaign was a perfect example of that.

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jul 22, 2015, 06:30:50 PM
Of course I knew that Doom. The women's right movement goes hand in hand with the workers' rights movement, and the civil rights movements and any other movement that is struggling for equality. All the different movements are in the end about class (class system) despite focusing on different groups in society. They're all organized to kick upwards instead of downwards or to the sides of the proverbial pyramid.

It's either about class or gender. It can't be both ways. If it's gender, then it represents women from all different classes. If it's about class, then it's about men and women in which case calling FEMinism is silly and it should just be the Civil Rights Movement, albeit from a different era.

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jul 22, 2015, 06:30:50 PM
QuoteHuman biology is where they came from. Men didn't choose it anymore than women did. It just happened. Women have not been ignored as much as you think. Women receive far more attention in every aspect of modern society from healthcare funding to market research to government treatment. Gynocentrism is the result of biology. Men are natural protectors (which is partially why men are considered disposable utilities) and we have a vested interested in protecting women from harm. Why? Because of the Golden Uterus. Women hold the keys to reproduction and we can't risk having them die en masse.

I'm not going to argue with that. But does that excuse the fact that women have been treated as sub-humans through most of history?

I want you to open this link and tell me if that's sub-humans are treated. I can guaran-damn-tee you that Black slaves would have killed for this kind of treatment.

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jul 22, 2015, 06:30:50 PM
QuoteHiring quotas are dangerous and very short-sighted. There is absolutely nothing preventing anyone from working in any field he/she chooses, except perhaps the necessary resources to study in a given field before getting a particular job. Hiring quotas do not solve the problem. If anything, they only exacerbate it. That's why women aren't taken seriously in certain fields. Did they get that high-paying job because they legitimately earned it by working their ass of or because the company was forced to hire a less-than-qualified individual due to a government-imposed quota? How can I take a co-worker seriously and treat her as my equal when she received her position as a result of affirmative action? You tell me who's the bad guy here; me or the groups that push for quotas.

Quotas should only be temporary measures to introduce minorities to different parts of societies. They should always be changing and mirroring societal needs. It should be one tool of many to level things out and not be some kind of static law written in stone. It goes both ways. Quotas for men to work as preschool or kindergarten teachers I'm all for. It's all about change gaining traction.

What need? Why is there a need? A private business should be free to hire whoever it wants, regardless of what people's feelings on the matter may be. They will hire the best person for the job, not the person who wants a job because they feel they are underrepresented in the field. Personally, I would very much object to hiring quotas for men as teachers for the same reasons. Not to mention, it's a very dangerous field for men to work in. A lot of people these days do not trust men with children. It's a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jul 22, 2015, 06:30:50 PM
QuoteOn this point, I also want to ask. What exactly is supposed to happen by getting more women into certain fields? I keep hearing we need more women here, there, everywhere, but no one has actually explained what the practical benefits are. If more women want to work in a certain field, fine, go right ahead. It makes no difference to me. But, for example, what does having more female doctors than male doctors accomplish in real terms? Does this somehow affect the quality of medicine or treatment that a patient receives?

That's not the point. It should feel just as possible and natural for women to go for any job they want as it is for men. We (men) are used to it and take it for granted that we can pretty much do whatever we want without being questioned because of our gender. We have countless male role models in any and every field. We're not systematically questioned and called incompetent just because we're men when we mess up. Women on the other hand still are.

It is just as possible for for women to go to any job they want. All the barriers you claim exist such as sexism are only your perception. Every study that claims to have proven systemic sexism is dubious at best. Proving sexism exists means somehow analyzing an individual's brain on a chemical level to see how they make their own choices. Speaking of choices, you might say that women aren't going into certain fields because of sexism. I maintain it's because women simply aren't interested in certain jobs, which goes back to our biological makeup. Sure, we can be influenced by our lives and upbringing, but at the end of the day, women can make free choices about their career paths. If you really think that they cannot and are simply subject to societal pressure and whatnot, then I am really going to question your claim to viewing women as capable people.

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jul 22, 2015, 06:30:50 PM
QuoteAnd also, when they say we need more women, are they talking about white women? Black women? Asian women? What about trans women? And why is it only women? What about black men, or trans men, etc? This kind of logic is baffling.

Well, again, you believe that feminists are nazis that only care about women and hate men. I on the other hand say that feminism should, and is, encompasses all of that.

Really? Because everytime I hear about quotas, it's always about women. Just, women. Again, prove me wrong on this and I'll believe it. 

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jul 22, 2015, 06:30:50 PM
QuoteBut we do have equal opportunity! That is why we live in a meritocracy. If you work hard enough and take responsibility for your own actions and learn from your mistakes, you can go anywhere in life. Sitting in a corner and crying about how the world supposedly hates you isn't going to help your case.

That's just a myth. We don't live in a meritocracy and we never did.



Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jul 22, 2015, 06:30:50 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jul 22, 2015, 05:57:26 PM
Dude, come on.

Dude, come on, what?

That wasn't directed at you. Twas meant for Duke, hence the quote.

Hubbs

Hubbs

#11446
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jul 22, 2015, 05:50:34 PM
Quote from: Hubbs on Jul 22, 2015, 01:29:57 AM
@SpreadEagle...

The dude who just committed the shooting of military personnel in the US, he specifically targeted military personnel, he's a shooter and he's Muslim. I'm sorry if you think I'm being racist but in my book that's a terrorist with an agenda...a Muslim terrorist, and we all know about them. No point trying to play any kind of righteous justice warrior bs on it, it is what it is.

But when white right-wing extremists commit terrorist acts it's never labeled as such, which is just depressing as the absolute majority of terrorist attacks and acts here in the U.S. are committed by right-wing extremists; bomb attacks, assassination attempts, shootings, arson etc. against abortion clinics and doctors, black people and churches, ethnic and religious minorities, and even the fed.

But I guess it doesn't count if you're Christian and white, right?

If you're gonna label Chattanooga shooting as a terrorist attack then you should count the Charleston shooting as such as well.


QuoteI think the White House should of remained neutral over the same sex marriage decision because they are the government, its not a good idea to take sides with such big decisions and piss off a huge section of your population. Whether or not you agree with that decision is up to the individual person, but the President and the White House should remain neutral, its just the professional thing to do. You now have masses of American's you are very upset over that decision (no national vote, no say) and upset with their government who they think has turned its back on them. I'm not saying I don't agree with the decision, but as a government you don't rub peoples faces in a huge decision like that, you don't see the Houses of Parliament doing that.

What are you talking about? Here in the U.S. being married is more than just for fun. Marriage has a really heavy legal and financial function as simple partnership is not acknowledged. Before, if you're not married you get less tax benefits and such. If you're not married you're not guaranteed to inherit your partner if he/she dies. If you're not married and you have a non-U.S. citizen partner that partner can't get a spousal visa to move with you to the U.S. ...in other words, before the ruling, homoseuxals had less rights than hetrosexuals, i.e. they were treated as sub-citizens just because they were gay. That is a POLITICAL issue and a huge one and not just a matter of opinion.


QuoteThe Democrats have also possibly shot down their own Presidential chances next year too because most religious folk will probably now vote Republican in anger over that decision, and there is a lot of religious people in America! Also add to that all the pissed off people in the South and the Confederate flag business.

So what's the alternative? Let intolerant people keep on pushing people down and keep on pretending that we're a democracy when in reality a large portion of American citizens are denied their rights? Shut up and suck it up to religious whackos and racist crackpots? I don't think so.


I see the Chattanooga shooting as terrorism because the shooter was (presumably, could be wrong) carrying out the attack in support of IS. IS being a foreign entity that is, or wanting, to be at war with the west, or anyone not being the right kind of Muslim. So it kinda stands as an attack from outside America, if you know what I'm getting at. Charleston was indeed an attack by an extremist but just seems more like outright murder, just like anyone can shoot someone in the street because they are racist or whatever, but it would be murder not terrorism.

I agree with you on the same sex marriage, all I'm saying is the White House should of been more professional, it represents everyone all of the time, at the same time. There was no need to light it up like that.


SpreadEagleBeagle

SpreadEagleBeagle

#11447
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jul 22, 2015, 07:03:32 PM
No, she's just one example of why it does. Feminism wants equal rights without equal responsibility. The White Feather Campaign was a perfect example of that.

Ok, now I get what you're getting at.

Still, that isn't why feminism has a bad name. Putting the blame on feminists is such BS and beyond unfair as the struggle for women's rights has been demonized, vilified and ridiculed since 1850, if not earlier than that.


QuoteIt's either about class or gender. It can't be both ways. If it's gender, then it represents women from all different classes. If it's about class, then it's about men and women in which case calling FEMinism is silly and it should just be the Civil Rights Movement, albeit from a different era.

Of course it is about both. Society and culture isn't as easy as that - black or white - right or wrong. All these movements developed alongside each other as they all sought for equal opportunity, respect and rights, challenging power (back then ONLY represented by old, christian, western white guys - the patriarchy). The movements overlapped here and there, exchanged tactics and ideas to become stronger and more unified. Of course the people in power didn't want their privileged ways to be challenged and thus every chance they got to divide and conquer they surely did...


QuoteI want you to open this link and tell me if that's sub-humans are treated. I can guaran-damn-tee you that Black slaves would have killed for this kind of treatment.

...Those rules only applied to white ladies.

And even so, I doubt that these hypothetical slaves would go for it if they knew about what entailed in the long run, unless these hypothetical slaves thought that they only had two options: being a sub-human slave _or_ a sub-human cupcake...


QuoteWhat need? Why is there a need? A private business should be free to hire whoever it wants, regardless of what people's feelings on the matter may be. They will hire the best person for the job, not the person who wants a job because they feel they are underrepresented in the field. Personally, I would very much object to hiring quotas for men as teachers for the same reasons. Not to mention, it's a very dangerous field for men to work in. A lot of people these days do not trust men with children. It's a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Men were never trusted with kids to begin with because that is seen as the job for a woman. It's a lowly paid job that only men with something (evil) to hide would go for... A good old macho patriarchal tradition.

More men are needed in preschool and kindergarten since kids need all kinds of role models, men included since we make up about 50% of the population after all.


QuoteIt is just as possible for for women to go to any job they want. All the barriers you claim exist such as sexism are only your perception. Every study that claims to have proven systemic sexism is dubious at best. Proving sexism exists means somehow analyzing an individual's brain on a chemical level to see how they make their own choices. Speaking of choices, you might say that women aren't going into certain fields because of sexism. I maintain it's because women simply aren't interested in certain jobs, which goes back to our biological makeup. Sure, we can be influenced by our lives and upbringing, but at the end of the day, women can make free choices about their career paths. If you really think that they cannot and are simply subject to societal pressure and whatnot, then I am really going to question your claim to viewing women as capable people.

I never claimed that, but upbringing, response from grown ups and our surrounding, different language when talking about boys and girls etc., especially in the early years, have a huge impact on how think and behave and how our brains react and form. Boys are encouraged by grownups and society to certain behaviors whereas girls are encouraged to other behaviors. even the smallest things have an impact and chain reaction throughout one's life as all the small things cake on top of each other making you the gender and person you are. Women will therefor have a different experience growing up than men despite starting their lives much the same. Sure, there are biological differences, but that, especially in a modern society with technology bridging gaps in physique, should never stand in the way.


QuoteReally? Because everytime I hear about quotas, it's always about women. Just, women. Again, prove me wrong on this and I'll believe it.

Really? That's not what I have heard, so again, prove me wrong on this and I'll believe it.

It's an enigma to me that you and I have such polar experiences and perception on the matter. I want to mer these man hating nazis you seem to run into all the time, I want to talk to them see what they are all about.


Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jul 22, 2015, 06:30:50 PM
QuoteBut we do have equal opportunity! That is why we live in a meritocracy. If you work hard enough and take responsibility for your own actions and learn from your mistakes, you can go anywhere in life. Sitting in a corner and crying about how the world supposedly hates you isn't going to help your case.

That's just a myth. We don't live in a meritocracy and we never did.



???


Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jul 22, 2015, 06:30:50 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jul 22, 2015, 05:57:26 PM
Dude, come on.

Dude, come on, what?

That wasn't directed at you. Twas meant for Duke, hence the quote.
[/quote]

Ok, my bad... Sorry about that Doom

Born Of Cold Light

Born Of Cold Light

#11448
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jul 22, 2015, 12:32:16 PM
That's a laugh. Is that why white, privileged c**ts like Emmeline Pankhurst were busy handing out white feathers as a symbol of cowardice to young men who refused to fight overseas? Sure, she was all for screaming and crying about "oppression" because she couldn't vote but blatantly ignored the fact that with the right to vote, came the responsibility of serving in the military. She was all for young boys and men (many of them living in poverty) dying needlessly overseas just so she could enjoy her cushy lifestyle, but not for actual equality which would have meant women fighting in the trenches. I'm guessing you didn't know that men and lots of them didn't have the right to vote because they came from poor families? Voting rights were tied to class status, not gender, unlike what modern history books tell us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qIndoWEkaU

That was a much different time.  Women's suffrage was not all that radical of an idea then (though still quite controversial in some sectors), but the idea of a woman serving openly in combat would have been absolutely unthinkable.  Nowadays, women serve in many capacities in the military, so it's not like they've been purposefully avoid military service.

DoomRulz

DoomRulz

#11449
Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Jul 22, 2015, 08:05:29 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jul 22, 2015, 12:32:16 PM
That's a laugh. Is that why white, privileged c**ts like Emmeline Pankhurst were busy handing out white feathers as a symbol of cowardice to young men who refused to fight overseas? Sure, she was all for screaming and crying about "oppression" because she couldn't vote but blatantly ignored the fact that with the right to vote, came the responsibility of serving in the military. She was all for young boys and men (many of them living in poverty) dying needlessly overseas just so she could enjoy her cushy lifestyle, but not for actual equality which would have meant women fighting in the trenches. I'm guessing you didn't know that men and lots of them didn't have the right to vote because they came from poor families? Voting rights were tied to class status, not gender, unlike what modern history books tell us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qIndoWEkaU

That was a much different time.  Women's suffrage was not all that radical of an idea then (though still quite controversial in some sectors), but the idea of a woman serving openly in combat would have been absolutely unthinkable.  Nowadays, women serve in many capacities in the military, so it's not like they've been purposefully avoid military service.

No, it was definitely purposeful. Proving one's ability on the battlefield would have been the ultimate cry of empowerment for women at the time but because it actually involved doing something away from their privileged lifestyles, and because they were already accustomed to having men take care of them, they weren't the least bit interested in campaigning for women fighting in the military. If the whole point of the feminist women was to prove female ability, they wouldn't have let societal attitudes stop them. The suffragettes were the most entitled and violent people of their day. The suffragists however, those folks I highly respect.


Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jul 22, 2015, 08:05:03 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jul 22, 2015, 07:03:32 PM
No, she's just one example of why it does. Feminism wants equal rights without equal responsibility. The White Feather Campaign was a perfect example of that.

Still, that isn't why feminism has a bad name. Putting the blame on feminists is such BS and beyond unfair as the struggle for women's rights has been demonized, vilified and ridiculed since 1850, if not earlier than that.

So the followers of a movement are not reflective of that movement? Duly noted. I'll remember that the next time you, and others, claim MRAs and others in the manosphere are just whiny white men afraid of losing their privilege.

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jul 22, 2015, 08:05:03 PM
QuoteI want you to open this link and tell me if that's sub-humans are treated. I can guaran-damn-tee you that Black slaves would have killed for this kind of treatment.

...Those rules only applied to white ladies.

And hilariously enough, feminism was started by white women and for the most part, represented (and still is) by white women. Oh, the irony.

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jul 22, 2015, 08:05:03 PM
QuoteWhat need? Why is there a need? A private business should be free to hire whoever it wants, regardless of what people's feelings on the matter may be. They will hire the best person for the job, not the person who wants a job because they feel they are underrepresented in the field. Personally, I would very much object to hiring quotas for men as teachers for the same reasons. Not to mention, it's a very dangerous field for men to work in. A lot of people these days do not trust men with children. It's a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Men were never trusted with kids to begin with because that is seen as the job for a woman. It's a lowly paid job that only men with something (evil) to hide would go for... A good old macho patriarchal tradition.

No, they're not trusted because men are assumed to be inherently deviant. We're assumed that we're pedos in waiting and not safe to be around kids. Don't believe me? Read this.

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jul 22, 2015, 08:05:03 PM
More men are needed in preschool and kindergarten since kids need all kinds of role models, men included since we make up about 50% of the population after all.

I agree we need more men, but I want those men to come because they want to, not because they're being mandated to.

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jul 22, 2015, 08:05:03 PM
QuoteIt is just as possible for for women to go to any job they want. All the barriers you claim exist such as sexism are only your perception. Every study that claims to have proven systemic sexism is dubious at best. Proving sexism exists means somehow analyzing an individual's brain on a chemical level to see how they make their own choices. Speaking of choices, you might say that women aren't going into certain fields because of sexism. I maintain it's because women simply aren't interested in certain jobs, which goes back to our biological makeup. Sure, we can be influenced by our lives and upbringing, but at the end of the day, women can make free choices about their career paths. If you really think that they cannot and are simply subject to societal pressure and whatnot, then I am really going to question your claim to viewing women as capable people.

I never claimed that, but upbringing, response from grown ups and our surrounding, different language when talking about boys and girls etc., especially in the early years, have a huge impact on how think and behave and how our brains react and form. Boys are encouraged by grownups and society to certain behaviors whereas girls are encouraged to other behaviors. even the smallest things have an impact and chain reaction throughout one's life as all the small things cake on top of each other making you the gender and person you are. Women will therefor have a different experience growing up than men despite starting their lives much the same. Sure, there are biological differences, but that, especially in a modern society with technology bridging gaps in physique, should never stand in the way.

There will always be inherent biological differences between men and women, no matter how hard we try to deny it. There's nothing wrong with those differences. It's what makes us unique as a species. It only becomes a problem when we start treating each other differently (read: in an inferior manner). But we have to recognize that sometimes, those physical differences mean that women won't always be able to keep up with a man. If that offends you, well, too bad.

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jul 22, 2015, 06:30:50 PM
It's an enigma to me that you and I have such polar experiences and perception on the matter. I want to mer these man hating nazis you seem to run into all the time, I want to talk to them see what they are all about.

Spend time on Twitter and Tumblr. You'll find a veritable gold mine.

SpreadEagleBeagle

SpreadEagleBeagle

#11450
QuoteI see the Chattanooga shooting as terrorism because the shooter was (presumably, could be wrong) carrying out the attack in support of IS. IS being a foreign entity that is, or wanting, to be at war with the west, or anyone not being the right kind of Muslim. So it kinda stands as an attack from outside America, if you know what I'm getting at. Charleston was indeed an attack by an extremist but just seems more like outright murder, just like anyone can shoot someone in the street because they are racist or whatever, but it would be murder not terrorism.

There are plenty of white power right-wing extremist organizations, groups/cells and internet sites out there advocating all kinds of violence and terror attacks against non-whites and non-christians. Some of them are even urging a so called race war and/or just simply overthrow the government altogether and start a new civil war as they feel like white people and culture are about to be extinct or overtaken by savages if white people don't start "fighting back".

Charleston was an organized attack meant to instill terror in black people, it had a political message shared and approved by others, and it was certainly not the first attack of its nature - it was a terrorist attack. And like most people committing these terror attacks, no matter Islamist or white supremacist, they are broken and lost individuals trying to find meaning in life in the wrong places as they are full of rage, have a huge ego, underdeveloped empathic ability etc. They need help.


QuoteI agree with you on the same sex marriage, all I'm saying is the White House should of been more professional, it represents everyone all of the time, at the same time. There was no need to light it up like that.

Not if we want to be a democracy. You can't be a democracy yet denying certain groups of people fundamental rights, discriminating them on a federal level.

The discrimination has been going on for so long and generations men and women have staid in the closet, torturing themselves pretending to be straight, living fake heterosexual lives in fear of being beat up, murdered, lose their job, lose their family and friends, just for being gay. I think it is very much appropriate to celebrate it on a national level.






Quote from: DoomRulz on Jul 22, 2015, 08:30:14 PM
So the followers of a movement are not reflective of that movement? Duly noted. I'll remember that the next time you, and others, claim MRAs and others in the manosphere are just whiny white men afraid of losing their privilege.

That's not the same at all... Oh my god Doom...

First of all women want to have the same possibilities, rights and respect as men - not bring men down to limited world of women. As long as these MRAs acknowledge this and bark up the right tree, which isn't feminism but "traditionalism" (which I call the patriarchy), I don't see anything wrong with men focusing on actual injustices against men and challenging male norms, working together with feminists rather than butting heads with the crazies.


QuoteAnd hilariously enough, feminism was started by white women and for the most part, represented (and still is) by white women. Oh, the irony.

That is quite simplistic. But you are right, a majority of leading feminists are indeed white women, but far from all. Feminazis on the other hand tend to be white, mostly. Maybe it's the white privilege shining through? Who knows...


QuoteNo, they're not trusted because men are assumed to be inherently deviant. We're assumed that we're pedos in waiting and not safe to be around kids. Don't believe me? Read this.

That is an extension of the old ways/days, morphed into modern day hysteria and media outrage.

Like I said many times before - patriarchal structures and systemic discrimination against women has its downsides for men as well and are becoming more and more apparent and absurd as the old ways are questioned and society is changing. Now that's something for MRAs to sink their teeth in...


QuoteI agree we need more men, but I want those men to come because they want to, not because they're being mandated to.

They won't come because they don't want to unless mandated to since these kinds of jobs are underpaid, looked down upon and seen as a job for women, not men. Making these jobs more attractive, inclusive and less stigmatic for men is necessary or nothing will happen. Quotas go both ways.


QuoteThere will always be inherent biological differences between men and women, no matter how hard we try to deny it. There's nothing wrong with those differences. It's what makes us unique as a species. It only becomes a problem when we start treating each other differently (read: in an inferior manner). But we have to recognize that sometimes, those physical differences mean that women won't always be able to keep up with a man. If that offends you, well, too bad.

I never said that there are differences. What I said that some of those acclaimed differences are all due to upbringing whereas others are indisputable. And as I said, we have technology to bridge some of the gaps whereas other need changes in cultural and societal attitudes.


QuoteSpend time on Twitter and Tumblr. You'll find a veritable gold mine.

No thank you, I would kill myself. Twitter and Tumblr is just social media insanity, brain fart championships on crack.

DoomRulz

DoomRulz

#11451
And like every other feminist, you just blame "the patriarchy". This is why men's issues aren't taken seriously. It's always the fault of men. That is precisely why MRAs and feminists will never be able to come to terms. The core philosophies are different. I once shared an article on Facebook about male victims of rape. The response I received was, "Well, it's likely men who are doing it to other men" as if that's supposed to mean something. No one cares about men enough to want to help, not even feminists. They're too busy vilifying and demonising us and labeling everything men enjoy as "toxic masculinity".

Gate

Gate

#11452
Doomrulz, why do you talk to 14 year old emo girls?


Real, actual feminism is closer to egalitarianism than anything else and the only person that will make you believe otherwise is a young, impressionable mind.

Also please don't use "MRA's" to describe men's rights activists because feminism can cover men's issues too. MRA's are about the same as the meninist movement to me: a bunch of f**kboys.

SpreadEagleBeagle

SpreadEagleBeagle

#11453
Quote from: Gate on Jul 22, 2015, 10:11:08 PM
Doomrulz, why do you talk to 14 year old emo girls?


Real, actual feminism is closer to egalitarianism than anything else and the only person that will make you believe otherwise is a young, impressionable mind.

Also please don't use "MRA's" to describe men's rights activists because feminism can cover men's issues too. MRA's are about the same as the meninist movement to me: a bunch of f**kboys.

Haha, you just made me realize that I have been beating around the bush (absolutely no pun intended) for the last couple of posts. Thanks for distilling it down. It was much needed.

DoomRulz

DoomRulz

#11454
Quote from: Gate on Jul 22, 2015, 10:11:08 PM
Doomrulz, why do you talk to 14 year old emo girls?


Real, actual feminism is closer to egalitarianism than anything else and the only person that will make you believe otherwise is a young, impressionable mind.

Also please don't use "MRA's" to describe men's rights activists because feminism can cover men's issues too. MRA's are about the same as the meninist movement to me: a bunch of f**kboys.

*sigh* The last person who said "We're working on men's issues too" was this bitch:



Also, (and I'm truly amazed at how many people still don't realize this) meninism was a joke. It was just a parody of feminism. It was never supposed to be a real movement. It's incredible how quickly anti-MRA folks will jump all over something without investigating it first.

SpreadEagleBeagle

SpreadEagleBeagle

#11455
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jul 22, 2015, 10:08:19 PM
And like every other feminist, you just blame "the patriarchy".

Because it is the patriarchy that is the problem, both for women and men. It needs to be challenged, which will benefit everyone, men and women alike.

Or are you denying that there even is such a thing as the patriarchy? Do you believe that men and women have been equal through the ages and that the societies we have today is the fruition of the differences between men and women and that women have been just as much in power as men and that women for some reason don't wan to be influential or live in a society where they can vote, work and get paid etc?


QuoteThis is why men's issues aren't taken seriously. It's always the fault of men. That is precisely why MRAs and feminists will never be able to come to terms. The core philosophies are different. I once shared an article on Facebook about male victims of rape. The response I received was, "Well, it's likely men who are doing it to other men" as if that's supposed to mean something. No one cares about men enough to want to help, not even feminists. They're too busy vilifying and demonising us and labeling everything men enjoy as "toxic masculinity".

That's not it at all. Men's issues are taken seriously when men stop pretending that they (we) are the victims and that the world is against us and that it is the feminists' fault that things are the way they are. Whimpering in male privilege reeking of anti-feminism isn't the right way make work things out. As Gate said, feminism cover men's issues and needs as well as feminism is about equality for both sexes.

DoomRulz

DoomRulz

#11456
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jul 22, 2015, 10:30:14 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jul 22, 2015, 10:08:19 PM
And like every other feminist, you just blame "the patriarchy".

Because it is the patriarchy that is the problem, both for women and men. It needs to be challenged, which will benefit everyone, men and women alike.

It would be, if it existed.

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jul 22, 2015, 10:30:14 PM
Or are you denying that there even is such a thing as the patriarchy? Do you believe that men and women have been equal through the ages and that the societies we have today is the fruition of the differences between men and women and that women have been just as much in power as men and that women for some reason don't wan to be influential or live in a society where they can vote, work and get paid etc?

Yes, I am denying it. I believe that we were unequal in society because men and women decided that the traditionalist model was working just fine for them. I also believe everything men have done is to make the lives of women easier. Every bit of technology that women use to make their lives easier was almost entirely invented by men. This includes appliances, cell phones, computers, the internet, you name it. I also believe that women were more than happy to enjoy being provided for because a free ride in life is always more fun than having to actually work for anything. Men have always placed women's interests ahead of theirs and will continue to do so. That, however, is slowly changing with men going their own way. Men are realizing that the headaches and pains associated with modern relationships, along with women being ever needier and whinier (though not all of course), just aren't worth it.

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jul 22, 2015, 10:30:14 PM
QuoteThis is why men's issues aren't taken seriously. It's always the fault of men. That is precisely why MRAs and feminists will never be able to come to terms. The core philosophies are different. I once shared an article on Facebook about male victims of rape. The response I received was, "Well, it's likely men who are doing it to other men" as if that's supposed to mean something. No one cares about men enough to want to help, not even feminists. They're too busy vilifying and demonising us and labeling everything men enjoy as "toxic masculinity".

That's not it at all. Men's issues are taken seriously when men stop pretending that they (we) are the victims and that the world is against us and that it is the feminists' fault that things are the way they are. Whimpering in male privilege reeking of anti-feminism isn't the right way make work things out. As Gate said, feminism cover men's issues and needs as well as feminism is about equality for both sexes.

Yet you steadfastly refuse to place any blame on women for the current state of affairs. How about constantly demanding that men "man up" and look after them? Women have become so accustomed to being taken care of that they're not interested in doing it themselves. That's why marriage is such a racket. Men are still expected to look after the woman and be the primary breadwinner. Find me one woman who will marry a man who isn't making more money than she is, assuming she works at all. The difference between you and I SEB is that I can admit woman are part of the problem. Feminism doesn't give two shits about men's issues. If they did, they would take the time to listen to what MRAs have to say about things like false rape accusations, the sentencing gap, male genital mutilation, the gender empathy gap, and others, but no, they'd rather scream about these whiny white men with their male tears just need to shut up and listen to women. I'm sick to death of it.

I realize a lot of what I just said was ranting but I wanted to get it off my chest. I can provide relevant sources later on. I'm about to leave work.

SpreadEagleBeagle

SpreadEagleBeagle

#11457
Quote from: DoomRulz on Jul 22, 2015, 10:42:32 PM
It would be, if it existed.

So you seriously deny that our society, it's history and it's structure is patriarchal in its nature (i.e. originally made by men for men)? If that's the case I don't see why we even should continue this debate.


QuoteYes, I am denying it. I believe that we were unequal in society because men and women decided that the traditionalist model was working just fine for them. I also believe everything men have done is to make the lives of women easier. Every bit of technology that women use to make their lives easier was almost entirely invented by men. This includes appliances, cell phones, computers, the internet, you name it. I also believe that women were more than happy to enjoy being provided for because a free ride in life is always more fun than having to actually work for anything. Men have always placed women's interests ahead of theirs and will continue to do so. That, however, is slowly changing with men going their own way. Men are realizing that the headaches and pains associated with modern relationships, along with women being ever needier and whinier (though not all of course), just aren't worth it.

so what you are saying is that there is a patriarchy, but we should call it traditionalism so that we can pretend that men were not fully in power before and were solely the ones behind it whereas women were pretty much pets and cattle.

Of course men have been the majority of inventors, artists etc. since they have been the one in power, the norm, the people never told that they can participate in society or go to school, gotten systematically raped in war or beat up for just simply trying, just because they have the wrong genitalia.


QuoteYet you steadfastly refuse to place any blame on women for the current state of affairs. How about constantly demanding that men "man up" and look after them? Women have become so accustomed to being taken care of that they're not interested in doing it themselves. That's why marriage is such a racket. Men are still expected to look after the woman and be the primary breadwinner. Find me one woman who will marry a man who isn't making more money than she is, assuming she works at all. The difference between you and I SEB is that I can admit woman are part of the problem. Feminism doesn't give two shits about men's issues. If they did, they would take the time to listen to what MRAs have to say about things like false rape accusations, the sentencing gap, male genital mutilation, the gender empathy gap, and others, but no, they'd rather scream about these whiny white men with their male tears just need to shut up and listen to women. I'm sick to death of it.

I never said that Doom. Go through my posts again and you'll see that I clearly acknowledge that there are opportunistic and lazy women who want it both ways and don't care about equality for all. I also acknowledge that there are plenty of so called feminists out there that either lost it or didn't have to begin with. But feminism as a movement, struggle and ideology is NOT to blame. It covers a broad spectrum of injustices, men's needs and issues included, at least as long as they are not reactionary and intolerant against women and minorities.


QuoteI realize a lot of what I just said was ranting but I wanted to get it off my chest. I can provide relevant sources later on. I'm about to leave work.

No problem. It sounds like we're reaching a dead end anyways since we can't come to agree on even the most basic things. Feel free to continue, I'll respond when I have time.

Kel G 426

Kel G 426

#11458
There's so much I want to respond to here, but it's too much and moving too fast and I don't have the time.  I'm just glad I'm not a woman in Doom's life. His sexist views are just disgusting.

PVTDukeMorrison

PVTDukeMorrison

#11459
QuoteIs that a serious question or just some kind of joke?
Mostly a joke because seeing you and Hubbs butt heads all the time gets pretty entertaining, but in all seriousness you do bring up the term "white privilege" a lot, just slightly curious as to where this mild hostility comes from.

Remember the Fukushima nuclear disaster back in 2011, well some of the flora in the area has reportadly started to mutate, pic related


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