In The News

[SiL]

If MRA people could quit harping on about military service as an example of men not having rights, that'd be f**king great. There are more men in the military because military leaders -- men -- don't want women in the armed forces. They're either explicitly denied enlistment, or heavily deterred. Rarely are they openly welcomed or encouraged.

More male soldiers die because more men are soldiers because men don't want women playing soldier.

[Cvalda]

WHY AREN'T THERE WOMEN DYING, TOO?! INEQUALITY!!!!!!

[Sabby]

Correct, male centered issue doesn't = male right issue, but what does make something a male right issue to you? Or hell, what takes a female centered issue and elevates it to a female rights issue?

You admit so far that these issues exist, but you don't think they warrant Mens Rights Activism to exist in any capacity. Could you explain further?

[SiL]

Yeah, I really don't get what MRM people are asking for there.

Do ... do they want as many women to die in war as men? Is that what they think equality means? Should we shoot a woman in the head for every male soldier who goes down, or what?

Correct, male centered issue doesn't = male right issue, but what does make something a male right issue to you? Or hell, what takes a female centered issue and elevates it to a female rights issue?

You admit so far that these issues exist, but you don't think they warrant Mens Rights Activism to exist in any capacity. Could you explain further?

The issue is rights.

Women didn't have the right to vote. That's a rights issue.

Men have the right to defend themselves against false rape accusations. They have the right to due process. The social stigma that comes from the allegation alone isn't a rights issue, it's a problem with public perception.

[Sabby]

That's reasonable. Thank you for the response SiL, I think I understand. But don't womens rights groups use exactly the same terminology?

[SiL]

In some aspects, yes, but generally they actually have, y'know, rights issues that need arguing.

[Sabby]

So my question remains, what elevates a gender centric issue to a gender rights issue?

[BANE]

A...right?

[SiL]

I literally just explained that -- whether it's an issue of the rights one has based on their gender.

[Sabby]

I only ask because the issues (well, the legit ones at least) proposed by MRA groups (regardless of how poorly they may pursue them) seem very similar to those proposed by WRA groups. Yes, I know it has to do with rights, but that isn't really helping me to understand.

For instance, WRA groups fight for women to be fairly treated when applying for or working in a corporation. Is this a rights issue? I'm genuinely confused, so apologies if I'm frustrating anyone.

[DoomRulz]

Yeah, I really don't get what MRM people are asking for there.

Do ... do they want as many women to die in war as men? Is that what they think equality means? Should we shoot a woman in the head for every male soldier who goes down, or what?

Equal rights means equal responsibility. If you want the same respect afforded to you as another demographic, then you need to be prepared to make the same sacrifices that other demographic does. That's why initially, voting rights were given to poor, working-class men in World War 1 in England because the state deemed that if you were willing to die for your country, you could have a say in its political operation.

If MRA people could quit harping on about military service as an example of men not having rights, that'd be f**king great. There are more men in the military because military leaders -- men -- don't want women in the armed forces. They're either explicitly denied enlistment, or heavily deterred. Rarely are they openly welcomed or encouraged.

More male soldiers die because more men are soldiers because men don't want women playing soldier.

Or because the women who do actually want to join the military can't make the cut and insist on having the requirements toned down. Sorry, but that's bullshit. Lowering the bar for soldiers called upon to defend the country is ridiculous.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/01/02/marines-delay-female-fitness-plan-after-half-fail-pullup-test/
http://www.thedailybeast.com/the-hero-project/articles/2014/01/07/lowering-standards-for-female-marines-is-not-gender-equality.html
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/marines-delay-female-fitness-standards/
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/barbara-boland/female-marines-not-required-do-1-pull

From the last article,

Females in the Marine Corps currently are not required to do even a single pull-up, and a deadline mandating that by Jan. 1, 2014, they be able to do at least 3 pull-ups as part of their  training has been delayed for at least a year, the Corps quietly announced on social media.

[SiL]

Or because the women who do actually want to join the military can't make the cut and insist on having the requirements toned down.

So lower the --

Sorry, but that's bullshit. Lowering the bar for soldiers called upon to defend the country is ridiculous.

... okay, so if the bar is set to male standards, and women are physically incapable of meeting it, how in the f**k is that a men's rights issue?

Men set the bar.

To other men.

And then AVfM and you and every other MRA says it's not fair to men and that it's the fault of women, but f**ked if you will ever lower that bar.

That men set.

To other men.

Do you not see how retarded this logic is? You want more women in the army, but you don't want to actually do anything to make it so they can join in and die just as much as men? You're just bitching for the sake of it.

[Cal427eb]

Women should be held to the same standard as men when it comes to getting into the Marines or anything like that, but how the f**k is this a men's right issue. 

[Sabby]

Why not have gender specific bars?

I must agree with SiL and Cal though, I don't see this as a male rights issue.

[DoomRulz]

I wouldn't call it "men's standards" so much as it is a standard for being a soldier in general. Men just happen to make the cut because they're physically stronger. The trouble here is that people are complaining that women are underrepresented in the armed forces, yet want things made easier for them to get in. Well, if you can't make the cut, that's your problem.

MRAs don't care if more or less women join the army. That's not important. The real issue is how veterans are treated when they return from combat. Look at how Vietnam vets were basically shit on when they returned. Bruce Springsteen didn't write Born In The U.S.A. for nothing.