All Star Wars

Started by CELTICPRED, Dec 13, 2006, 05:23:55 AM

Author
All Star Wars (Read 2,885,939 times)

Cougerboy

Cougerboy

#28380
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Aug 16, 2023, 07:52:14 AMLOTR's easy to recommend, the Oscar winning Trilogy, and the works of J.R.R and Christopher Tolkien if you are an avid reader.

For Star Wars though, I'd just recommend Andor, you can get into the weeds yourself afterwards. Even as a nerd, Star Trek took me most of my life (so far) to get really into.

Marvel I know where I'd want to start, but I'm not everyone, same goes with DC.

James Bond, easy, either Goldeneye or Casino Royale. 



That's thing though, you are not the average moviegoer, you are more knowledgeable, have greater understanding in how those franchises work and invested than the average viewer. The mainstream audience taste varies a lot now though. Whereas back in 1977 when A New Hope was released, Star Wars became a sensational pop culture phenomenon of the late 70's. Because there was nothing like it back then.

Now yes, the actual story of A New Hope, if you dissect it in down in detail, isn't actually all that novel or original, a classic fantasy tale with elements borrowed from King Arthur and his Knights of the Roundtable, the pulp fiction stories of Edgar Rice Burroughs (who wrote Tarzan and John Carter), Flash Gordon, samurai flicks of Kurosawa and so forth. But what was truly innovative was that it wrapped that classic tale with never-before-seen visual effects* and combined with excellent editing, cinematography and the score from the legendary composer John Williams, all that created a blockbuster of unprecedented proportions. There was nothing quite like it in 1977. It was jaw-dropping and blew the minds of everyone who saw it.

Not so today, when there are far more choices available to your average moviegoer. I suspect they aren't just willing to invest in the time to watch those mega franchises like before. Maybe that's why recent sequels of big franchises just seem to be under-delivering, like Indiana Jones or Mission Impossible (in the box office sense).

P.S-Andor, yes, it certainly helps that it was developed from that one truly excellent Star Wars movie in the Disney era, Rogue One.

*A New Hope was a watershed in Hollywood too in developing and placing importance on special effects. Before Star Wars, effects on films had not really advanced all that dramatically from the 40s or 50s. Lucas himself had to establish ILM to do the Star Wars effects because there was no one in Hollywood capable of doing the kind of effects he envisioned...or at least at the budget he was limited to. And of course from a business standpoint, Star Wars made Hollywood aware of the importance of merchandizing. Lucas elected to take a cut from the toy sales of Star Wars, which in hindsight was a smart move, since merchandise sales would soon dwarf the box office ticket sales in revenue, making Lucas quite a rich man.

Immortan Jonesy


TilotnyWorshiper28


Highland

Highland

#28383
Quote from: Cougerboy on Aug 16, 2023, 10:18:17 AMMaybe that's why recent sequels of big franchises just seem to be under-delivering, like Indiana Jones or Mission Impossible (in the box office sense).


I think this is an easy one to answer - at least in the case of a series like Indiana Jones. It's old hero's for a new generation. Old generation doesn't care for 75 year old indie running around when they were content with the original trilogy. New Generation....have no connection to said 75 year old running around.

Left with a movie than nobody wants and is not original.

Everyone complained about the old Star Wars characters not getting a run in the new films, but they probably did make the correct decision going with a new cast. Unfortunately they completely butchered that too  :laugh:

James Bond has it right. New films, new Bonds, mostly no connections between films.


Cougerboy

Cougerboy

#28384
Quote from: Highland on Aug 17, 2023, 11:46:31 PM
Quote from: Cougerboy on Aug 16, 2023, 10:18:17 AMMaybe that's why recent sequels of big franchises just seem to be under-delivering, like Indiana Jones or Mission Impossible (in the box office sense).


I think this is an easy one to answer - at least in the case of a series like Indiana Jones. It's old hero's for a new generation. Old generation doesn't care for 75 year old indie running around when they were content with the original trilogy. New Generation....have no connection to said 75 year old running around.

Left with a movie than nobody wants and is not original.

Everyone complained about the old Star Wars characters not getting a run in the new films, but they probably did make the correct decision going with a new cast. Unfortunately they completely butchered that too  :laugh:

James Bond has it right. New films, new Bonds, mostly no connections between films.



Actually Harrison Ford is 80 this year, not 75.  ;D

As for the new cast in Star Wars, I didn't have an issue with that per se. The problem is not that there was  a new cast, it was that they weren't well crafted or all that interesting. You don't feel like you want to care and invest in the characters. I mean, Ren, Ray and Finn...I just really could not care about their fate. They pale in comparison to Hans Solo, Leia and Luke. And the villain Snoke...just poorly thought up.

The only character that seem a little more interesting was Poe Dameron, but we just didn't see enough of him in the films.

So like I said, it comes down to poor creative choices.

Highland

Highland

#28385
Quote from: Cougerboy on Aug 18, 2023, 01:03:45 AM
Quote from: Highland on Aug 17, 2023, 11:46:31 PM
Quote from: Cougerboy on Aug 16, 2023, 10:18:17 AMMaybe that's why recent sequels of big franchises just seem to be under-delivering, like Indiana Jones or Mission Impossible (in the box office sense).


I think this is an easy one to answer - at least in the case of a series like Indiana Jones. It's old hero's for a new generation. Old generation doesn't care for 75 year old indie running around when they were content with the original trilogy. New Generation....have no connection to said 75 year old running around.

Left with a movie than nobody wants and is not original.

Everyone complained about the old Star Wars characters not getting a run in the new films, but they probably did make the correct decision going with a new cast. Unfortunately they completely butchered that too  :laugh:

James Bond has it right. New films, new Bonds, mostly no connections between films.



Actually Harrison Ford is 80 this year, not 75.  ;D

As for the new cast in Star Wars, I didn't have an issue with that per se. The problem is not that there was  a new cast, it was that they weren't well crafted or all that interesting. You don't feel like you want to care and invest in the characters. I mean, Ren, Ray and Finn...I just really could not care about their fate. They pale in comparison to Hans Solo, Leia and Luke. And the villain Snoke...just poorly thought up.

The only character that seem a little more interesting was Poe Dameron, but we just didn't see enough of him in the films.

So like I said, it comes down to poor creative choices.

They could have been though...

Finn was a really interesting character, Storm Trooper turned Jedi ( that's what the trailer was selling). Poe was rock solid until Ryan Johnson got his hands on him and well...Rey, Luke was never the most interesting character in the OT anyway.

I feel sorry for everyone involved tbh. Totally mismanaged.


Local Trouble

Local Trouble

#28386
Are you saying what I think you're saying?

Highland

Highland

#28387
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 18, 2023, 02:08:15 AMAre you saying what I think you're saying?

Kinda.

It only became a bit shit after the sequel. So at the time it was "decent" but matured into a bit shit.

Local Trouble

Local Trouble

#28388
Quote from: Highland on Aug 18, 2023, 02:13:42 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 18, 2023, 02:08:15 AMAre you saying what I think you're saying?

Kinda.

It only became a bit shit after the sequel. So at the time it was "decent" but matured into a bit shit.

I thought you liked TROS.  Or did you just think it was a bit less shit than TLJ?

Cougerboy

Cougerboy

#28389
Quote from: Highland on Aug 18, 2023, 01:57:39 AM
Quote from: Cougerboy on Aug 18, 2023, 01:03:45 AM
Quote from: Highland on Aug 17, 2023, 11:46:31 PM
Quote from: Cougerboy on Aug 16, 2023, 10:18:17 AMMaybe that's why recent sequels of big franchises just seem to be under-delivering, like Indiana Jones or Mission Impossible (in the box office sense).


I think this is an easy one to answer - at least in the case of a series like Indiana Jones. It's old hero's for a new generation. Old generation doesn't care for 75 year old indie running around when they were content with the original trilogy. New Generation....have no connection to said 75 year old running around.

Left with a movie than nobody wants and is not original.

Everyone complained about the old Star Wars characters not getting a run in the new films, but they probably did make the correct decision going with a new cast. Unfortunately they completely butchered that too  :laugh:

James Bond has it right. New films, new Bonds, mostly no connections between films.



Actually Harrison Ford is 80 this year, not 75.  ;D

As for the new cast in Star Wars, I didn't have an issue with that per se. The problem is not that there was  a new cast, it was that they weren't well crafted or all that interesting. You don't feel like you want to care and invest in the characters. I mean, Ren, Ray and Finn...I just really could not care about their fate. They pale in comparison to Hans Solo, Leia and Luke. And the villain Snoke...just poorly thought up.

The only character that seem a little more interesting was Poe Dameron, but we just didn't see enough of him in the films.

So like I said, it comes down to poor creative choices.

They could have been though...

Finn was a really interesting character, Storm Trooper turned Jedi ( that's what the trailer was selling). Poe was rock solid until Ryan Johnson got his hands on him and well...Rey, Luke was never the most interesting character in the OT anyway.

I feel sorry for everyone involved tbh. Totally mismanaged.



I didn't say the new characters didn't have potential, but all that was squandered due to bad creative choices made. TFA was...ok I guess, nothing really spectacular, just a rehash of A New Hope, but still watchable. The Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker? That was when things went off the rails.

Its really telling that the best Star Wars film in the Disney era is a side story (Rogue One).

TilotnyWorshiper28


Highland

Highland

#28391
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 18, 2023, 02:18:09 AM
Quote from: Highland on Aug 18, 2023, 02:13:42 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 18, 2023, 02:08:15 AMAre you saying what I think you're saying?

Kinda.

It only became a bit shit after the sequel. So at the time it was "decent" but matured into a bit shit.

I thought you liked TROS.  Or did you just think it was a bit less shit than TLJ?

I was happy that it was over  :laugh:  I have this weird thing that when I'm at the cinema, things seem better than they are. Then I sit on it for a day and think....hang on that was a bit shit really. I think I like the cinema experience more than the actual film i'm watching  :o

I think TLJ is the actual best made one ( but is not good), TROS is just terrible in everything it does.

None of the sequels are anywhere near as good as the prequels and that is saying something.


T Dog

T Dog

#28392

QuoteNone of the sequels are anywhere near as good as the prequels and that is saying something.

That's hyperbole at it's finest. The prequels are dogshit with some good aspects (costumes/designs/music) and the sequels are much more competantly made movies with good visuals and set pieces but bad writing.



Mr. Clemens

Mr. Clemens

#28393
I dunno... I just watched the prequels over the last three nights and, quibbles aside, that's how you do a trilogy. The mood, the designs, the attitude... George had a story to tell, a world to build, and you could enjoy the ride or get the hell off. The sequel trilogy was more like, 'Please like me!'

Cougerboy

Cougerboy

#28394
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Aug 20, 2023, 10:20:41 AMI dunno... I just watched the prequels over the last three nights and, quibbles aside, that's how you do a trilogy. The mood, the designs, the attitude... George had a story to tell, a world to build, and you could enjoy the ride or get the hell off. The sequel trilogy was more like, 'Please like me!'

Story-wise, the prequel trilogy was actually alright. Not perfect, it got issues, but overall, its...acceptable, if you are in a generous mood. The problem with George Lucas, as always, is that he really can't do dialogue...very well. He can be a good storyteller, but getting his characters say stuff in everyday speech, that was the problem. As Mark Hamill famously puts it after trying to say some of the wooden lines typed out by Lucas: "Who talks like that?":


Harrison Ford of course also told George: "You can type this sh*t, but you can't say it!". Sir Alec Guinness also said the dialogue was "ropey". 

At least in the original trilogy, Lucas agreed to change some of the lines. But nobody challenged Lucas on his dialogue in the prequels. The end result was the enjoyment of the prequels was impacted by the wooden dialogue. Some was especially cringe-worthy, like those infamous romance scenes between Anakin and Padme, the lines they had to say, those were simply awful.

Still, to be fair, George isn't entirely without competence. There is one scene in Revenge of the Sith where the dialogue was actually ok, the famous opera scene between Palpatine and Anakin, as Palpatine tries to lure Anakin to the dark side:





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