First Alien: Isolation Screenshots

[Engineer]

Unless you can show a screen shot the includes text or subtitles which clearly states ash was there from the beginning to collect a specimen, I stand by my theory.

Ash, being a synth, would have been programmed the same as muther. So he would have been pursuing that agenda whether he was purposely sent to collect a specimen or not.

And the fact the crew did not know ash was a synth is why I suggested it was a sort of pilot-study. Sending synths on various space voyages to see how things work out. It would have defeated the purpose if the crew knew he was a synth. That's why pilot-studies are conducted.

Not sure what you're trying to prove with the script excerpt... White noise does come from space, and any radio transmissions picked up today have background noise referred to as the cosmic microwave background radiation (the definitive proof of the Big Bang, if you believe in that). That doesn't mean the EEV wasn't picking up white notice from space just like any other transmitting device would, then start playing the recording of ripley's final report. The script is too vague in this respect, therefore, I still strongly standby the recording NOT transmission theory.

[Space Sweeper]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q#

[Aspie]

what platform is this game for?

[SM]

Unless you can show a screen shot the includes text or subtitles which clearly states ash was there from the beginning to collect a specimen, I stand by my theory.

SPECIAL ORDER 937
SCIENCE OFFICER EYES ONLY

NOSTROMO REROUTED
TO NEW CO-ORDINATES
INVESTIGATE LIFEFORM. GATHER SPECIMEN.

(Note past tense - REROUTED)

Add that to Dallas saying he was cycled onto the crew two days before they left Thedus (which Riddles cut from DC because he thought it was too much of a red flag).  A special order directed to the science officer only, who was put on board just before they left to go near a region of space that the Company wanted specimens from.  How much more obvious does it have to be?

Ash, being a synth, would have been programmed the same as muther. So he would have been pursuing that agenda whether he was purposely sent to collect a specimen or not.

Well, no.  If he'd simply been programmed, SO937 wouldn't have been needed.

And the fact the crew did not know ash was a synth is why I suggested it was a sort of pilot-study. Sending synths on various space voyages to see how things work out. It would have defeated the purpose if the crew knew he was a synth. That's why pilot-studies are conducted.

All this is speculatory and irrelevant to the debate, however.  It's also been suggested that robots were secretly put on ships to 'spy' on the crew performance - but that's ultimately irrelevant too.

Not sure what you're trying to prove with the script excerpt...

It specifically mentions the sound coming from a radio.

[UDA]

Unless you can show a screen shot the includes text or subtitles which clearly states ash was there from the beginning to collect a specimen, I stand by my theory.

Ash, being a synth, would have been programmed the same as muther. So he would have been pursuing that agenda whether he was purposely sent to collect a specimen or not.

And the fact the crew did not know ash was a synth is why I suggested it was a sort of pilot-study. Sending synths on various space voyages to see how things work out. It would have defeated the purpose if the crew knew he was a synth. That's why pilot-studies are conducted.

Not sure what you're trying to prove with the script excerpt... White noise does come from space, and any radio transmissions picked up today have background noise referred to as the cosmic microwave background radiation (the definitive proof of the Big Bang, if you believe in that). That doesn't mean the EEV wasn't picking up white notice from space just like any other transmitting device would, then start playing the recording of ripley's final report. The script is too vague in this respect, therefore, I still strongly standby the recording NOT transmission theory.

Everything you're arguing is basically what I was trying to get at. I didn't go so far as to get into the background radiation and the timing of the transmissions, but I never saw anything conclusive prior to Alien 3 that the company was aware and actively seeking the xeno. Even the colony infection in Aliens was brought on because Burk put the colonists up to checking out Ripleys story. 

The other thing that I think drills the last nail home about this: Why didn't the company obtain a specimen prior to Aliens. Look at it from WY point of view, if you sent a ship to check on a signal, planted an android and never heard form them again, then wouldn't you at least send someone out to see if the Nostromo is orbiting the planet carrying a bunch of corpses? It didn't happen though. And why would W-Y go through the trouble of sending colonists to the planet years afterword, just to have them slaughtered? That's a pricey thing to do, when you can just send something similar to the commando team from Alien 3 to try and collect it? I can already hear somebody arguing that they would do it to see how the aliens fought, because they wanted them for their bioweapons division, but if they were going to do that why not plant another Andriod there? How come there's no recording of events at the Colony before the Marines arrived?

No, if the company wanted the xenomorph, or to investigate the transmission, they would have done it themselves, instead of plotting out this whole thing with space truckers.

The Nostromo happened across the signal.
They couldn't reach earth, remember? They didn't raise anybody, likely because at that point they didn't have the tech to do it, that means that the special order was already built into Mother.
Ash was an Andriod built for scientific purposes, his ambition, especially with the special order would be the default for him to go by in those circumstances, was retrieving a sample.
And if you think of the Alien as a new virus (like I said in another post), it would be best to collect a sample for study, because you don't know if this little pocket of infection will one day turn into a plague.
57 years later, Burk knew what the company would want with the Alien, and he knew he could get rich doing it.
If contact with the colony was lost, and the company knew something was up related to the disaster of the Nostromo, the signal and so on, they would be more incline to send more than just a handful of marines. Even if the Marines were successful, they would only destroy the xeno's, taking away the companies chance of getting one. So I'm incline to believe they did not know of the xeno's existence, or at least did not believe Ripley.
It wasn't until Fury161 that the Company recognized what was going on.
And that's the only time they sent a team remotely prepared to deal with what Ripley had described in to get a specimen.

[Engineer]

Unless you can show a screen shot the includes text or subtitles which clearly states ash was there from the beginning to collect a specimen, I stand by my theory.

SPECIAL ORDER 937
SCIENCE OFFICER EYES ONLY

NOSTROMO REROUTED
TO NEW CO-ORDINATES
INVESTIGATE LIFEFORM. GATHER SPECIMEN.

(Note past tense - REROUTED)

Add that to Dallas saying he was cycled onto the crew two days before they left Thedus (which Riddles cut from DC because he thought it was too much of a red flag).  A special order directed to the science officer only, who was put on board just before they left to go near a region of space that the Company wanted specimens from.  How much more obvious does it have to be?

Ash, being a synth, would have been programmed the same as muther. So he would have been pursuing that agenda whether he was purposely sent to collect a specimen or not.

Well, no.  If he'd simply been programmed, SO937 wouldn't have been needed.

And the fact the crew did not know ash was a synth is why I suggested it was a sort of pilot-study. Sending synths on various space voyages to see how things work out. It would have defeated the purpose if the crew knew he was a synth. That's why pilot-studies are conducted.

All this is speculatory and irrelevant to the debate, however.  It's also been suggested that robots were secretly put on ships to 'spy' on the crew performance - but that's ultimately irrelevant too.

Not sure what you're trying to prove with the script excerpt...

It specifically mentions the sound coming from a radio.

All of this is speculatory, and can be argued either way. The ship re routed itself prior to the crew waking up, so of course it's past tense. There is nothing saying the science officer was put on board specifically for this task. To me, I interpret the SO937 as a set of routines activated under these circumstances for the ship to re route, and ash, being part of the same system was acting on his pre-programmed routines in the same way as muther. And The program was code named sO937, the same way a computer's programs have names. Dallas also specifically used the word "programmed" in the beginning of the movie shortly after consulting muther, referring to SO937 activating under certain circumstances. That's more proof to me than the vague text you referenced from muther above, which could just as easily be a pre-programmed set of instructions intended for science officer eyes only...

Radio, receiver, recorder, it doesn't matter what you call it. It's the same technology, based on "radio" waves... Which would have reached fury well before 57 years later.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q#

I'm restricted to using mobile devices (iPad, no computer at the moment) and this video is not viewable on mobiles I guess... What is it?

[PVTDukeMorrison]

Arguing against SM is pointless, he's good at what he does

[Engineer]

Unless you can show a screen shot the includes text or subtitles which clearly states ash was there from the beginning to collect a specimen, I stand by my theory.

Ash, being a synth, would have been programmed the same as muther. So he would have been pursuing that agenda whether he was purposely sent to collect a specimen or not.

And the fact the crew did not know ash was a synth is why I suggested it was a sort of pilot-study. Sending synths on various space voyages to see how things work out. It would have defeated the purpose if the crew knew he was a synth. That's why pilot-studies are conducted.

Not sure what you're trying to prove with the script excerpt... White noise does come from space, and any radio transmissions picked up today have background noise referred to as the cosmic microwave background radiation (the definitive proof of the Big Bang, if you believe in that). That doesn't mean the EEV wasn't picking up white notice from space just like any other transmitting device would, then start playing the recording of ripley's final report. The script is too vague in this respect, therefore, I still strongly standby the recording NOT transmission theory.

Everything you're arguing is basically what I was trying to get at. I didn't go so far as to get into the background radiation and the timing of the transmissions, but I never saw anything conclusive prior to Alien 3 that the company was aware and actively seeking the xeno. Even the colony infection in Aliens was brought on because Burk put the colonists up to checking out Ripleys story. 

The other thing that I think drills the last nail home about this: Why didn't the company obtain a specimen prior to Aliens. Look at it from WY point of view, if you sent a ship to check on a signal, planted an android and never heard form them again, then wouldn't you at least send someone out to see if the Nostromo is orbiting the planet carrying a bunch of corpses? It didn't happen though. And why would W-Y go through the trouble of sending colonists to the planet years afterword, just to have them slaughtered? That's a pricey thing to do, when you can just send something similar to the commando team from Alien 3 to try and collect it? I can already hear somebody arguing that they would do it to see how the aliens fought, because they wanted them for their bioweapons division, but if they were going to do that why not plant another Andriod there? How come there's no recording of events at the Colony before the Marines arrived?

No, if the company wanted the xenomorph, or to investigate the transmission, they would have done it themselves, instead of plotting out this whole thing with space truckers.

The Nostromo happened across the signal.
They couldn't reach earth, remember? They didn't raise anybody, likely because at that point they didn't have the tech to do it, that means that the special order was already built into Mother.
Ash was an Andriod built for scientific purposes, his ambition, especially with the special order would be the default for him to go by in those circumstances, was retrieving a sample.
And if you think of the Alien as a new virus (like I said in another post), it would be best to collect a sample for study, because you don't know if this little pocket of infection will one day turn into a plague.
57 years later, Burk knew what the company would want with the Alien, and he knew he could get rich doing it.
If contact with the colony was lost, and the company knew something was up related to the disaster of the Nostromo, the signal and so on, they would be more incline to send more than just a handful of marines. Even if the Marines were successful, they would only destroy the xeno's, taking away the companies chance of getting one. So I'm incline to believe they did not know of the xeno's existence, or at least did not believe Ripley.
It wasn't until Fury161 that the Company recognized what was going on.
And that's the only time they sent a team remotely prepared to deal with what Ripley had described in to get a specimen.

In response to everything you said... EXACTLY! 

Arguing against SM is pointless, he's good at what he does

I don't doubt that... But what's wrong with a debate? Nothing hostile going on here, just a friendly debate. If SM finds the proof I'm looking for, I'll admit he was right and I was wrong... I just haven't seen convincing proof yet.

In fact I should thank SM. I never really put a whole lot of thought into the transmission times, etc... Until today. I'm even more convinced of my position now that I have. Lol.

[SM]

but I never saw anything conclusive prior to Alien 3 that the company was aware and actively seeking the xeno.

Yep.

The other thing that I think drills the last nail home about this: Why didn't the company obtain a specimen prior to Aliens. Look at it from WY point of view, if you sent a ship to check on a signal, planted an android and never heard form them again, then wouldn't you at least send someone out to see if the Nostromo is orbiting the planet carrying a bunch of corpses? It didn't happen though.

Whoever issued SO937 didn't want an order that contains the words 'crew expendable' getting out.  And sending an expensive mission to a planet the Nostromo was supposed to be nowhere near would raise questions.

The Nostromo happened across the signal.

No, the Company happened across it, and someone arranged to have the Nostromo look like it happened across it.

It wasn't until Fury161 that the Company recognized what was going on.
And that's the only time they sent a team remotely prepared to deal with what Ripley had described in to get a specimen.

Correct.

All of this is speculatory, and can be argued either way.

Not really.

The ship re routed itself prior to the crew waking up, so of course it's past tense.

Your evidence to support this?

There is nothing saying the science officer was put on board specifically for this task.

The only other option is that it was a coincidence.  Which is silly.

To me, I interpret the SO937 as a set of routines activated under these circumstances for the ship to re route, and ash, being part of the same system was acting on his pre-programmed routines in the same way as muther.

No.  If that was the case it wouldn't be called a "special" order.

In response to everything you said... EXACTLY! 

None of which has anything to do with special orders or Ash.

[Engineer]

but I never saw anything conclusive prior to Alien 3 that the company was aware and actively seeking the xeno.

Yep.

The other thing that I think drills the last nail home about this: Why didn't the company obtain a specimen prior to Aliens. Look at it from WY point of view, if you sent a ship to check on a signal, planted an android and never heard form them again, then wouldn't you at least send someone out to see if the Nostromo is orbiting the planet carrying a bunch of corpses? It didn't happen though.

Whoever issued SO937 didn't want an order that contains the words 'crew expendable' getting out.  And sending an expensive mission to a planet the Nostromo was supposed to be nowhere near would raise questions.

The Nostromo happened across the signal.

No, the Company happened across it, and someone arranged to have the Nostromo look like it happened across it.

It wasn't until Fury161 that the Company recognized what was going on.
And that's the only time they sent a team remotely prepared to deal with what Ripley had described in to get a specimen.

Correct.

All of this is speculatory, and can be argued either way.

Not really.

The ship re routed itself prior to the crew waking up, so of course it's past tense.

Your evidence to support this?

There is nothing saying the science officer was put on board specifically for this task.

The only other option is that it was a coincidence.  Which is silly.

To me, I interpret the SO937 as a set of routines activated under these circumstances for the ship to re route, and ash, being part of the same system was acting on his pre-programmed routines in the same way as muther.

No.  If that was the case it wouldn't be called a "special" order.

In response to everything you said... EXACTLY! 

None of which has anything to do with special orders or Ash.

My proof that the ship was re routed prior to the crew waking up is the whole movie!! None of the crew knew they would stop at LV-426 on their way home, wouldn't that have been on a flight manifest or something?

"Special" meaning under these specific circumstances, do this... Seems "special" enough to me. It's a code name.

Everything really is speculative. I have a completely different perspective with references to the movie same as you... Which makes things speculative. I'm not arguing that my side isn't speculative, in fact I admit it whole heartedly. Just trying to point out that your side is just as speculative...

Oh, and yea, I think ash's presence on the Nostromo was just as coincidental as the recording of ripley's final report playing at the end of alien 3. Lol. Coincidences are a common occurrence in tons of movies.

[SM]

Except it's not.

I'm just taking bare facts from the film, without putting any spin on it.

My proof that the ship was re routed prior to the crew waking up is the whole movie!!

Oh no, excalamation marks.  I meant where's your evidence that "the ship re routed itself".  If Mother had accidently picked up the signal, yes, she would've homed in on it and woken the crew.  Except she didn't pick it up by accident.

[UDA]

Special doesn't mean it was sent while they were in route, it could have been contingency.

And if the company sent it, they could cover it up along with what happened on the Nostromo and still get answers about the source of the transmission.

How did the company know of the xeno if all they knew about was a distress signal that's not human? If that's the case, the special order would have to have been sent, but there's nothing to suggest, and even argument against the ability to communicate so quickly. They couldn't get in touch with earth. And even after the facehugger showed up, they didn't bother trying, maybe because the transmissions weren't fast enough, or because the tech wasn't there. So the special order doesn't make sense unless it's a contingency (pre-programmed).

it still doesn't make sense that the company would divert space truckers instead of fielding a more appropriate team if there was prior knowledge of the signal.

[Engineer]

Except it's not.

I'm just taking bare facts from the film, without putting any spin on it.

My proof that the ship was re routed prior to the crew waking up is the whole movie!!

Oh no, excalamation marks.  I meant where's your evidence that "the ship re routed itself".  If Mother had accidently picked up the signal, yes, she would've homed in on it and woken the crew.  Except she didn't pick it up by accident.

Says you. The movie does not explicitly say one way or the other. Dallas does use the word "programmed" which is a fact plain and simple...

There's nothing more to say the ship automatically re routed than there is to say it was planned all along. Therefore speculation either way.

Special doesn't mean it was sent while they were in route, it could have been contingency.

And if the company sent it, they could cover it up along with what happened on the Nostromo and still get answers about the source of the transmission.

How did the company know of the xeno if all they knew about was a distress signal that's not human? If that's the case, the special order would have to have been sent, but there's nothing to suggest, and even argument against the ability to communicate so quickly. They couldn't get in touch with earth. And even after the facehugger showed up, they didn't bother trying, maybe because the transmissions weren't fast enough, or because the tech wasn't there. So the special order doesn't make sense unless it's a contingency (pre-programmed).

it still doesn't make sense that the company would divert space truckers instead of fielding a more appropriate team if there was prior knowledge of the signal.

^^this

[SM]

Sure if you want to completely ignore the context.

Special doesn't mean it was sent while they were in route, it could have been contingency.

Special means 'not standard'.

it still doesn't make sense that the company would divert space truckers instead of fielding a more appropriate team if there was prior knowledge of the signal.

It depends on what the signal contained.  If it just said "Stay away! Dangerous organism!" then why not send some passing tug and if they find something $$$ and if they don't, you have no more costs than a late shipment.  If it gave detailed info about the Alien, it makes more sense to send an expensive dedicated team, but then you have all the rules and regs about dangerous organisms and "nobody wins".

[Kimarhi]

Special doesn't mean it was sent while they were in route, it could have been contingency.

And if the company sent it, they could cover it up along with what happened on the Nostromo and still get answers about the source of the transmission.

How did the company know of the xeno if all they knew about was a distress signal that's not human? If that's the case, the special order would have to have been sent, but there's nothing to suggest, and even argument against the ability to communicate so quickly. They couldn't get in touch with earth. And even after the facehugger showed up, they didn't bother trying, maybe because the transmissions weren't fast enough, or because the tech wasn't there. So the special order doesn't make sense unless it's a contingency (pre-programmed).

it still doesn't make sense that the company would divert space truckers instead of fielding a more appropriate team if there was prior knowledge of the signal.

The special order was most likely sent to the Nostromo when they were docked in Thedus, then Mother used it as an excuse to drift 10 months off course outside of the normal shipping lanes.  Hell it could've even been uploaded by Ash.

The Nostromo was most likely the closest WY vehicle that could be used to claim the find.  When the Nostromo itself was destroyed trying to kill the Alien and there were no survivors WY most likely tried to cover it up to avoid the bad press.  Otherwise Ash could've made some sob story up about what happened to the rest of the crew.

In between Alien and Aliens the beacon is destroyed by volcanic activity on Acheron's surface.