So, whats the connection between the Engineers and the aliens in this game?

[Kradan]

I don't care whether or not Ridley thinks he knows what's best of the franchise, I just enjoy his vision and interpretation of the original creature and AI. And guess what, it's totally fine to dislike it. Just don't try to force it down everyone's throats that they're terrible films without any merit, it's a waste of time.

Mandalorian as I said 2 pages ago is ina  way retconing the trilogy and bringing back the expanded lore to please the hardcore fans and nerds who made star wars big, it wasnt ever for the causual person from the start

[judge death]

Not my words but one of the artist of the comics from the 80s on star wars biggest forum

my feelings on 8 are known, but my reasoning for hating it and what they did to luke specifically boil down to this:

like it or not, Luke Skywalker is a hero, both in the story, and to people in general. They look up to him and find strength in him because of the journey he underwent in the original films. He was faced with destiny, stumbled, learned hard truths, overcame and outright championed over it. He had his "darkest moment" already, we saw it happen and it's one of the most well known, famous scenes in all of filmmaking and one of the most beloved twists in all of storytelling. His tumble to that point and rise from it gives us a Luke Skywalker at the end of Return of the Jedi that is earned, it's the culmination of the journey we've followed him on.

TFA, whether you like it or not, set up Luke to be a mystical, powerful element. We already heard about his failure with Ben. With how Star Wars has been depicted for over 40 years at this point, that sets us up to see Luke in much the same way we found Obi-Wan, or Yoda, which would have made sense as an "epilogue" to the previous journey. Nobody needed Luke to be a super badass, we just wanted Luke to be Luke. Hopeful, optimistic, someone who sees the good in even the worst of people. There was 100% a way to marry that with the story of failure that TLJ wanted to tell.

However, instead what TLJ did was as Specs described - character assassination. There wasn't a shred of the previous Luke. No hope (Luke was literally the "New Hope"), no optimism, no faith, just a lonely, miserable hermit who lost like a dozen students... Yoda and Obi-wan lost thousands of friends and students and lost the Republic to the Sith and Empire and even they didnt mope that much about it. There's no explanation or context for this massive massive change besides "well, its been 30 years, you never know". It's not at all in any way an "earned" change. It's just RJ shoving it down our throat whether we like it or not.
People who rely on "well you're just butthurt that they dared to give luke some character development" arguments, that's absolute shit. It's that they made it obscenely forced, along with just about everything else in the movie. They knew what people were expecting and almost blatantly said "f**k you, here's what you get, deal with it" and people who grew up knowing and loving and envisioning and drawing inspiration from the ideas of this iconic character were basically vilified for daring to be upset, which only makes them more upset.

Literally since the moment TLJ came out, Star Wars was in absolute chaos.

the instant Luke reappeared in Mando, relative peace. It feels right because it is right, that's the culmination of the journey we know and love, Luke has overcome the struggle, overcome the emperor's temptation, redeemed his irredeemable father and is now very much the Jedi he became by the end of ROTJ, not some hamfisted attempt to make Luke imperfect by making him a cranky, unlovable, nepoticidal old man just because the director wanted to blow himself by being edgy and different in the same way that one might be different by putting spinner rims and a full size decal of goatse on a Rolls Royce.

i think Disney doesnt have much of a choice but to do something along those lines, though. after TLJ came out, Solo lost Disney like 100M, and the reception to TROS was "meh". Everyone went "People are just sick of Star Wars!"

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand then TCW S7, The Mandalorian and Fallen Order came out, they announced Bad Batch and 82 new shows and people are stoked about just about every single one of them, so whats that "People are just sick of Star Wars" argument leave you? It holds no water, people arent sick of SW, they were sick of the sequels
they may look at it and see retconning the sequels as the quickest and easiest way to restore the health of their multi-multi-billion dollar franchise

heres my unpopular opinion - which very much mirrors many of the fans points there.

Star Wars was niche and nerdy and geeky for 30 years. it was never mega popular to the general audience outside of kids and Star Wars geeks and it was still worth what, 5 billion dollars?

Star Wars shouldnt be made with the casual audience in mind. they're not the ones who maintained it, nurtured it, held it dear and made it worth what it is worth. Thinking that SW needs to be remarketed for a modern mainstream audience is a colossal failure on Disney's part to understand what makes SW truly special and to whom those special aspects relate to.

Wasnt many who tried to defend the disney trilogy in the comments but applauding what mandalorian did.

[Kradan]

Bold font hurts my eyes

Star Wars was niche and nerdy and geeky for 30 years. it was never mega popular to the general audience outside of kids and Star Wars geeks and it was still worth what, 5 billion dollars?

Star Wars shouldnt be made with the casual audience in mind. they're not the ones who maintained it, nurtured it, held it dear and made it worth what it is worth. Thinking that SW needs to be remarketed for a modern mainstream audience is a colossal failure on Disney's part to understand what makes SW truly special and to whom those special aspects relate to.

Pretty expensive niche and nerdy and geeky franchise if you ask me

[judge death]

Havent learned how to qoute without pressing the qoute button... so I find it best option to use, sorry

[Kradan]

What's wrong with quote button ?

[Drukathi]

THE GREAT BLACK WALL

Ok, ok. Take it easy. Put down the ax.

[judge death]

hahaha xD no need to, just showing what I say isnt just my claims here xD

Qoute button: can only do that to messages on this forum, taking from other sites its not doable and when I can it qoutes whole posts, dunno how one can chose a sentence like Drukathi did above. All other forums I just need to mark the text I want to qoute but it qoutes whole post instead.

[[cancerblack]]

You manually type in [ quote]around the text[ /quote] without the spaces. And if you don't want to, for the love of god use italics instead of bold.

[judge death]

Ahh old style then, well will remember that for the future, thanks.
Italics done!

[BlueMarsalis79]

As for Aliens that can talk, someone's not read the new books, it's already happening guys!

And even crazier people enjoy it!

Yeah but it didn't follow the rest of my example now did it? If anything, an Alien that can lure you in with the voice of a familiar person to your death makes it more lethal and scarier as now you don't know if its your wounded friend or an Alien waiting in ambush down at the corridor. Its still in line with the core ideals.

Huge spoilers:

Spoiler

It's actually a sentient non-binary trans disabled Alien that can speak via a speaker mechanism implanted in the side of it's head, and they also have their own space ship, no I am not f**king with you in the slightest.

[close]

Spoiler

Wait, huh? Feels like I need more context to this. How did it get its own space ship? Does this mean Aliens were always sapient (sentient and sapient are two different areas of intelligence as A sentient being has consciousness, the capacity for sensation, and a subjective experience. Sapience, on the other hand, is marked by a higher level of cognition and intelligence.) But also, the most contradicarty, non-binary trans? I am pretty sure that Non-binary is a gender identity that isn't male or female unless xenos go with a gender that doesn't exist in our spectrum? Yeah I need a lot more context to this cuz what a whip lash. What book was this again?

[close]

Spoiler

Into Charybdis. The Alien described is also originally a person so it's less left-field than you're being lead to believe.

[close]

Yes I am joshing a bit, but the fact remains it happened, even if it's because of the specific circumstances absolutely a one time thing that can not be replicated.

It still did happen and it's far from a disaster, instead it implies interesting things concerning the Alien, and makes something that I ought to hate not only work but does so in such a way that it's currently sitting at my number one spot of recent things I love in the entire franchise.

And yes I did mean sapient.

Spoiler

It's in Alex White's Alien novels.

[close]

[Kradan]

Ahh old style then, well will remember that for the future, thanks.
Italics done!

Thanks, now it's much better 

You manually type in [ quote]around the text[ /quote] without the spaces. And if you don't want to, for the love of god use italics instead of bold.

I do that with mouse. Or fingers when I'm typing on my phone. You just highlight text / part of the text you need and click quote button

[Nightmare Asylum]

I don't care whether or not Ridley thinks he knows what's best of the franchise, I just enjoy his vision and interpretation of the original creature and AI. And guess what, it's totally fine to dislike it. Just don't try to force it down everyone's throats that they're terrible films without any merit, it's a waste of time.

I missed this comment yesterday, but yep, this is essentially where I fall on the whole thing as well. Ridley isn't over here touting to the fans that he "knows what's best for the franchise." He doesn't even really seem care about the franchise, beyond his own movies and some affection for what Cameron did - and we've seen in Prometheus and Alien: Covenant that he isn't even bothered by the idea of retconning his own entries. He's a filmmaker with ideas and stories that he wants to tell, and he is using the tapestry of the Alien franchise that he helped forge decades ago to tell those stories. That's cool to me. My relationship with Prometheus is about as messy as the film itself, but I genuinely love Alien: Covenant and I would love to see Ridley get to land this ship and conclude his thoughts on this story he's telling about creators and their creations. And then after he's done, I am all for seeing them bring in another new filmmaker with their own unique vision and if that vision retcons some of Ridley's prequel stuff, then so be it! As long as it is good and/or interesting, I'm cool with seeing different creators do different things within the franchise. That's my favorite thing about the Alien franchise in general - 1970s Ridley Scott is not James Cameron is not David Fincher is not Jean-Pierre Jeunet is not 2010s Ridley Scott. They're all radically different filmmakers with different ideas and styles. It's rare to get a big blockbuster franchise like this that is open to letting interesting, visionary filmmakers come in and really put their own stamp on their films. Each movie feels just as much a standalone part of each individual director's filmography as it does part of the franchise, and that is kind of a beautiful thing.

[Immortan Jonesy]

I don't care whether or not Ridley thinks he knows what's best of the franchise, I just enjoy his vision and interpretation of the original creature and AI. And guess what, it's totally fine to dislike it. Just don't try to force it down everyone's throats that they're terrible films without any merit, it's a waste of time.

https://i.dlpng.com/static/png/5450712-large-pointing-finger-transparent-png-stickpng-pointing-finger-transparent-400_400_preview.png

Mandalorian as I said 2 pages ago is ina  way retconing the trilogy and bringing back the expanded lore to please the hardcore fans and nerds who made star wars big, it wasnt ever for the causual person from the start

No one is going to chase down those who love the prequels, especially me. That would be cannibalism. At the end of the day, Noah Hawley is going to capture his own vision of Alien, just as young Ridley (Alien) and grandpa Ridley (Promy & Covi) have done in the past...like the others; Jim, Fincher and that freench guy. We just have to wait and see. 

I think times are not so bad. Years ago we thought that the franchise would be frozen for at least 5 years or more, until Disney decided what to do with it. Now we have Marvel Comics, Titan's book that I don't buy but I'm glad anyone else is reading them  , a video game ans a TV show in the way. 

So far they have kept the black goo or whatever you want to call it, plus the typical protoforms you might expect: hammerpede, abomination, Neos and mount Rushmore bald people edition. All of that is canon under Disney's rule.
Don't you find it canonically pleasing when your canon is recognized by Daddy Disney as true canon? Well I do. And do you know why? Because I like the prequels believe it or not. I'm willing to embrace Disney's Western Imperialism just for that.

And so far the only worrying thing is David's future. I don't know about you  Kradan  but I'm dying inside to have a conclusion.

For three main reasons:

1 ~ I like Ridley's vision.

2 ~ Always dreamed of a live-action story in which the Derelict, or something relative would be part.

3 ~ I want to know how everything connects, if you take that away from me it would be like Lucas doing his prequels until episode 2. I guess I could use my...



But it wouldn't be the same and I really want to contemplate this completely  And so far I can assure you one thing ☝...I'm always going to enjoy old Alien movies no matter how the prequels end. It's like an anthology of styles and visions, from Prometheus to Resurrection, and that makes it special. 😉💜

Edit~ If you don't agree with me, that's fine. We should all love each other regardless of our opinions. 

[Kradan]

And so far the only worrying thing is David's future. I don't know about you  Kradan  but I'm dying inside to have a conclusion.

GOD YEAH, PLEASE ! GIMME, GIMME, GIMME !

I don't care whether or not Ridley thinks he knows what's best of the franchise, I just enjoy his vision and interpretation of the original creature and AI. And guess what, it's totally fine to dislike it. Just don't try to force it down everyone's throats that they're terrible films without any merit, it's a waste of time.

I missed this comment yesterday, but yep, this is essentially where I fall on the whole thing as well. Ridley isn't over here touting to the fans that he "knows what's best for the franchise." He doesn't even really seem care about the franchise, beyond his own movies and some affection for what Cameron did - and we've seen in Prometheus and Alien: Covenant that he isn't even bothered by the idea of retconning his own entries. He's a filmmaker with ideas and stories that he wants to tell, and he is using the tapestry of the Alien franchise that he helped forge decades ago to tell those stories. That's cool to me. My relationship with Prometheus is about as messy as the film itself, but I genuinely love Alien: Covenant and I would love to see Ridley get to land this ship and conclude his thoughts on this story he's telling about creators and their creations. And then after he's done, I am all for seeing them bring in another new filmmaker with their own unique vision and if that vision retcons some of Ridley's prequel stuff, then so be it! As long as it is good and/or interesting, I'm cool with seeing different creators do different things within the franchise. That's my favorite thing about the Alien franchise in general - 1970s Ridley Scott is not James Cameron is not David Fincher is not Jean-Pierre Jeunet is not 2010s Ridley Scott. They're all radically different filmmakers with different ideas and styles. It's rare to get a big blockbuster franchise like this that is open to letting interesting, visionary filmmakers come in and really put their own stamp on their films. Each movie feels just as much a standalone part of each individual director's filmography as it does part of the franchise, and that is kind of a beautiful thing.

[Mr.Turok]

As for Aliens that can talk, someone's not read the new books, it's already happening guys!

And even crazier people enjoy it!

Yeah but it didn't follow the rest of my example now did it? If anything, an Alien that can lure you in with the voice of a familiar person to your death makes it more lethal and scarier as now you don't know if its your wounded friend or an Alien waiting in ambush down at the corridor. Its still in line with the core ideals.

Huge spoilers:

Spoiler

It's actually a sentient non-binary trans disabled Alien that can speak via a speaker mechanism implanted in the side of it's head, and they also have their own space ship, no I am not f**king with you in the slightest.

[close]

Spoiler

Wait, huh? Feels like I need more context to this. How did it get its own space ship? Does this mean Aliens were always sapient (sentient and sapient are two different areas of intelligence as A sentient being has consciousness, the capacity for sensation, and a subjective experience. Sapience, on the other hand, is marked by a higher level of cognition and intelligence.) But also, the most contradicarty, non-binary trans? I am pretty sure that Non-binary is a gender identity that isn't male or female unless xenos go with a gender that doesn't exist in our spectrum? Yeah I need a lot more context to this cuz what a whip lash. What book was this again?

[close]

Spoiler

Into Charybdis. The Alien described is also originally a person so it's less left-field than you're being lead to believe.

[close]

Spoiler

Ahhhhhh ok, it was due to a mutation. Ok see that makes sense. I thought for a moment that the Alien just came out of nowhere with this new trait. Ok thats cool, yeah I could perhaps take a look at this soon. The synopsis is interesting already from what looked at. Thanks for the context!

[close]