Quote from: SM on Apr 07, 2014, 10:15:45 PM
My point was countering your erroneous point about the senior officer wanting to countermand quarantine.
I'm not sure that it was 'erroneous point' when it was in response to a misjudged attempt at arguing that the Nostromo had a rigorous/robust process for investigating alien transmissions??? A single locked door does not constitute a rigorous quarantine process. And a captain who is prepared to circumnavigate that aforementioned 'sticky tape and glue' procedure cannot, in any seriousness, be deemed 'well equipped'. That one attempts to explain away these logic gaps/conveniences and contrivances in Alien (or in any film one values), but to then readily critique such things in Prometheus is the point I'm trying to make. One has to apply the same measure to both films in order to view it as objectively as possible.
Quote from: SM on Apr 07, 2014, 10:15:45 PM
The point is nothing exists in a bubble. Actions have repurcussions and influence future actions. Dallas is way more realistic - evne with the mistakes he makes, than Milburn who runs a mile from dead bodies (wouldn't a biologist be a little bit interested?), but make goo-goo eyes and new alien lifeforms (and the hammerpede scene doesn't even bug my in the slightest - but I can see why people would criticise it).
As I pointed out before, I think you're conflating 'tone' with 'character' and/or 'character behaviour'. Alien appears more 'realistic' not because of any innate acting skill of the actors involved or dialogue per se, but because of the approach that Scott chooses to take. Alien has a much more 'natural' approach in terms of lighting, camera set up, dialogue. Prometheus is much more based in 'fantasy' and its style is much more a 'hyper-reality' one - in terms of dialogue, lighting etc. etc. It's an aesthetic choice on the filmmaker's part... and is not a consequence of a lack of technical application. It's like comparing the behaviour of the characters in 2001:ASO to Star Trek when they are both trying to achieve completely different things.
Quote from: SM on Apr 07, 2014, 10:15:45 PM
Why would anyone suspect that? Dallas interrogated Mother - she said she'd picked up a transmission and got them up to check it out. "He just runs the ship". Was he supposed to be omnipotent or something?
I'd expect any captain, pilot or navigator to check/confirm at which point on their course they picked up a transmission/distress beacon. It's part of the detail that lends to more believability.
Quote from: SM on Apr 07, 2014, 10:15:45 PM
Simple answer is that Ash was already at Thedus. Why try and make up stuff to complicate things?
Same reason they didn't send a specific expedition. Cost/ potential security implications.
But there you go trying to justify things that are not in the film... Why would it be more costly when it obviously cost them the Nostromo and all its cargo anyway (that's what happens when you don;t send the right people for the right job)? What were the security issues (I've never heard of those??? Why not send Ash on his own if he was already in the vicinity? Why did he have to pretend to be... 1) Human? 2) A science officer crewmember of Nostromo?
Quote from: SM on Apr 07, 2014, 10:15:45 PM
You'd have a point if this was in fact, the case.
However it's not. Anyone paying attention is perfectly capable of joining the dots. It's really very straightforward. And is reinforced by the events in Aliens and Alien3. Again, I don't know why anyone would want to try and complicate something to frightfully simple.
But that's what you're alluding to isn't it? That complicated explanation for the company's rationale when that rationale is not borne out of any disenable logic presented in the film? That you accept it without question is great. I'm happy to accept it as well... but I'm merely pointing out that when Alien is under the microscope, it too is far from perfect. For example, as I pointed out before... Why have only a single escape shuttle that can't even take 50% of the crew? It's of course a contrivance to allow for Ripley's escape, but for it not to be an option prior to the deaths of Kane, Brett, Dallas and Ash. It serves the story fine, but when you start to examine the logic/detail, it doesn't stack up.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 07, 2014, 10:17:00 PM
Dallas' seniority didn't count for jack while he was in the lock. The person whose seniority did matter followed protocol. What Dallas ordered was irrelevant because he wasn't in charge.
It did as soon as he was back in the ship.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 07, 2014, 10:17:00 PM
Uh, you're the one who was saying it was such a certainty that the thing would attack and kill them that it rendered the quarantine procedure moot.
Nope... the point wasn't in relation to the quarantine procedure. It was in reference to Ash's intervention. You, or SM, were stating that if they'd been left in the airlock only Kane would have died... and I was simply pointing out that we don't know that. We don't know what the facehugger would have done once finished with Kane. Would it curl up and die or try and impregnate someone else if in the immediate vicinity.? We don't know what the chestburster was capable of. Dallas may have very well of just stamped on its head with a big boot, but its not a given.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 07, 2014, 10:17:00 PM
How about we look back at the point you made that I was actually responding to. You said Dallas was stupid/incompetent because:
Horseshit. If your friend had a face-sucking alien strapped to his face you wouldn't stand outside a hospital saying "Yeah, no, it's cool, we'll just let him rape you until your procedures say you can try to save his life". If someone you were responsible for was in a car accident and you were told you couldn't call for an ambulance for at least a day afterwards, would you listen? Not unless you're a completely heartless arsehole. Which Dallas wasn't.
What a ridiculous comparison. A captain's responsibility is to his ship and the entire crew. He/she has to view things holistically, logically, objectively... that's the difference between those in charge that make decisions and those who get told what to do. Great... Dallas is a 'people' person... but it certainly didn't do the rest of the crew, the ship or its cargo any good. Ergo, he was short sighted and not a very good commanding officer.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 07, 2014, 10:17:00 PM
By Aliens, yes. By Alien, no, they're still being run by full crews.
Where in the film does it state that or is that another factoid you're just pullin' out of thin air?