Theology

[BANE]

We have to look at right or wrong from an evolutionary perspective.

What would be the purpose of a sense of right or wrong? To my understanding the only reason such a thing would develop would be out of an instinct to survive; if I wronged someone, then their retribution would threaten my survival or well being. It's fairly simple, and all that has sprouted out of it is just a way to keep ourselves intellectually busy as we wait for death. 

[Sabby]

Can you conceive of a system of morality that would be poorly thought out even by the populations understanding of right and wrong? xD I'm kind of floundering with creating an example.

[Darth Rinzler]

Question. What about these events leads you to believe that Yahweh spoke the world into existence and continues to watch over the humans he condemned with the Forbidden Fruit?

Calling on Jesus for help, and having it work, against that thing is one reason why I believe the overall picture of things that happened in the Old testament and everything that has and will happen in the new testament.  If Jesus can help me in my time of need than he must be real, that's just how I see it.   Things that have happened, paranormal or not, after the haunting strengthens my faith further.

I wouldn't say partaking of the fruit condemned us, if it had we would prob not be here but that last part is just my opinion.

Is it that both mysterious events were solved by a Catholic priest specifically?

Very tricky answer, yes and no.  You can drive out demons with demons BUT all your doing is trading one for another.  Other priests from other denominations have been successful in driving out evil entities, just call on Jesus or the Holy Trinity.  That being said one must be trained to deal with the paranormal, this is something for along time till resent years the majority of Catholics priest where not trained to do.

The things you claim they did are by no means unique to them. Holy men of pretty much every faith claim to be able to caste out evil spirits and perform miracle healing. Are your assertions correct and all other assertions of divine intervention from other faiths incorrect?

Well after what happened to me I started reading more of the bible and attending mass.  I know a lot about Baltic Slavic mythology, and a bit of others, and I find it interesting that for the most part the Holy Trinity warns against practicing anything from other religions, sure their are cases of people carring out attacks on others that practice other religions but in their holy texts I don't recall anything warning the reader not to practice other religious customs.

You have to look at this from a war time point of view.  In war the enemies job is to kill/defeat their enemy, it can and will accomplish this by physical aggression, intelligence, counter intelligence, espionage, paper threats, and lies.  I very well believe that people saw other entities they thought were their creator, problem is they where lied too, one scary thing about demons is they lie a lot and can pretend to be other things, like say the spirit of a little girl.  Dealing with the paranormal is very dangers despite what they show on tv, Zak Baggan from Ghost Adventures has found amazing documented evidence of paranormal activity, how he is still alive is beyond me, he takes to many risks including use dark magic to conjure Ghosts and demons, that might sound good for ratings but you physical and spiritual health is at great danger.

If so, and God is the only power by which evil spirits are fought and ailments healed, then why are these wonderful services performed so sparingly?

Because we as a species are supposed to be helping each other.  To have him just healing everyone on a whim would take away are job to prove are selfs that we are good and will help people.  Unfortunately most of us do not care to help each other, this cut throat attitude towards each other needs to stop.

Why are they the product of 'a friend of a friends' stories? Anyone who could heal with the laying of hands, or demonstrate that a bipedal, immaterial black creature exists would be laughing all the way to the bank with James Randi's million dollar check.

I can't speak for other people, they could be telling the truth OR they could be lying.

So if I called on Allah to cure me of an arm cramp, and a passing Sheikh touched me and my arm felt better, does this mean that Allah is real?

Many have made that very same claim. You can't both be right.

No not everyone can be right, but to assume other things do not have power is incorrect as well, their is a good source of power and a bad source.

As for your example it really doesn't fit with what happened with me because it was the priest that called on Jesus while holding my arm, I didn't call on Jesus and then have my arm bumped into by the Priest.  Also you used a Abrahamic sub religion to discredit another Abrahamic sub religion, they both pray to Iehovah.  It would have been better if you picked Perun or some other false god.

[Sabby]

Calling on Jesus for help, and having it work, against that thing is one reason why I believe the overall picture of things that happened in the Old testament and everything that has and will happen in the new testament.  If Jesus can help me in my time of need than he must be real, that's just how I see it.   Things that have happened, paranormal or not, after the haunting strengthens my faith further.

I wouldn't say partaking of the fruit condemned us, if it had we would prob not be here but that last part is just my opinion.

Once again, how can you be right and the one who claims they were helped by Allah be right at the same time.

Very tricky answer, yes and no.  You can drive out demons with demons BUT all your doing is trading one for another.  Other priests from other denominations have been successful in driving out evil entities, just call on Jesus or the Holy Trinity.  That being said one must be trained to deal with the paranormal, this is something for along time till resent years the majority of Catholics priest where not trained to do.

You don't have to call on Jesus to perform these kinds of rituals. What do you say to those who cast out spirits by shaking a stick and calling on The Great Juju? Are they not the same as Catholic Exorcists? If not, what makes the Catholic Exorcists legitimate?

Well after what happened to me I started reading more of the bible and attending mass.  I know a lot about Baltic Slavic mythology, and a bit of others, and I find it interesting that for the most part the Holy Trinity warns against practicing anything from other religions, sure their are cases of people carring out attacks on others that practice other religions but in their holy texts I don't recall anything warning the reader not to practice other religious customs.

It's one of the 10 Commandments... Thou Shalt Have No Other Gods Before Me.

You have to look at this from a war time point of view.

Not if the Bible is the word of God. Why would a time of war affect the timeless words of a timeless deity, whose writings were meant to be a guiding force throughout the ages? Either it was written by man, or God has an extremely poor way of conveying himself. It would be like if I wrote my will out to my children in a pop up book, because they were 2 years old when I got around to writing it.

Because we as a species are supposed to be helping each other.  To have him just healing everyone on a whim would take away are job to prove are selfs that we are good and will help people.  Unfortunately most of us do not care to help each other, this cut throat attitude towards each other needs to stop.

So why are you special? You slept on your arm and it felt bad, so God decided to make an exception for you? What of all the other people in this world who suffer greatly, some at the hands of religion. A woman was recently lashed 200 times for being raped. Why did a priest not lay his hands on her and seal her wounds to ease her suffering.

Your bloody arm cramp was more important, eh?

I can't speak for other people, they could be telling the truth OR they could be lying.

Or they could genuinely believe what they say and be wrong. Belief has no baring on truth. People believe all sorts of crap, like splashing filthy water on an infant would prepare their soul for the holy spirit, or that certain crystals emit energy that coaxes the body to heal itself. Funnily enough, if you ask these people specific questions, they panic and change the subject.

[Darth Rinzler]

Once again, how can you be right and the one who claims they were helped by Allah be right at the same time.

Because we are praying to the same God.  He doesn't only heal people who are quote unquote correct.

You don't have to call on Jesus to perform these kinds of rituals. What do you say to those who cast out spirits by shaking a stick and calling on The Great Juju? Are they not the same as Catholic Exorcists? If not, what makes the Catholic Exorcists legitimate?

Jesus teaching about casting out entities in the New testament is pretty clear on the matter, it is only to be done in his name.

It's one of the 10 Commandments... Thou Shalt Have No Other Gods Before Me.

I think you might have read through my posts to quickly.  I was talking about non-abrahimic religions.

Not if the Bible is the word of God. Why would a time of war affect the timeless words of a timeless deity, whose writings were meant to be a guiding force throughout the ages? Either it was written by man, or God has an extremely poor way of conveying himself. It would be like if I wrote my will out to my children in a pop up book, because they were 2 years old when I got around to writing it.

The Bible shows that their will be conflict between good and evil until the time of judgement.  We must always be prepared for war.  As I was saying their are Dark entities that have power, that do lie, and would like nothing more for people to mistake them for God.  This is why I brought up the different ways enemies wage war.

This is an example,  I used to play 40k,  I joined the Forces of disorder to help kill the IOM.  I purposely made a fake Forces of Order account and feed them false information.  I told them that the Dark Angels where really fighting for the forces of disorder.  I told them all the players in Gibson City IL had started fighting other forces of order.  I also brought up all the distrust other chapters had about Dark Angels, my work caused such an up roar and in fighting that we Forces of Disorder had at least a Week head advantage over the Forces of order.  Many forums where made to flame Dark Angels and their players.

I hope this analogy helps you to understand what I am getting at.

So why are you special? You slept on your arm and it felt bad, so God decided to make an exception for you? What of all the other people in this world who suffer greatly, some at the hands of religion. A woman was recently lashed 200 times for being raped. Why did a priest not lay his hands on her and seal her wounds to ease her suffering.

Your bloody arm cramp was more important, eh?

Everyone will have or does have a gift or gifts they are to share, It wasn't me that was quote unquote special.  The Priest obviously had that gift given to him by God.  It also speaks in the Bible that Jesus would have peopled healed and that they should go out and proclaim this act as a testimony.

As for the other People of the world I still stand fast in my post.  It is our job to help each other, it is our duty to share our gifts to make this world better, if we where to stop hording are money cough cough corporations, look past the quote unquote evaluated money value of the individual,  or just let go of Pride, like in the case of North Korea when the USA and maybe the UN tried to help them after a disaster, they refused the help and then later took all the supplies and gave it only to their military, the world would end up much better.

Or they could genuinely believe what they say and be wrong. Belief has no baring on truth.

Yes but I talked about this in a different comment.  Nothing is Higher than the Holy Trinity, but to assume nothing else has power is a mistake that can cost a person or persons a hefty price.

People believe all sorts of crap, like splashing filthy water on an infant would prepare their soul for the holy spirit, or that certain crystals emit energy that coaxes the body to heal itself. Funnily enough, if you ask these people specific questions, they panic and change the subject.

I don't know of anyone that uses filthy water to baptize children except maybe Kentucky Amish or maybe some Southern Protestant.  Just a heads up though, I think you mixed Confirmation with baptism, we use blessed anointing oil to strengthen our bounds with the Father Son and Holy Spirit.  As for the crystal who knows, if it works it might have been blessed or have something Dark attached to it.

[SM]

This is an example,  I used to play 40k,  I joined the Forces of disorder to help kill the IOM.  I purposely made a fake Forces of Order account and feed them false information.  I told them that the Dark Angels where really fighting for the forces of disorder.  I told them all the players in Gibson City IL had started fighting other forces of order.  I also brought up all the distrust other chapters had about Dark Angels, my work caused such an up roar and in fighting that we Forces of Disorder had at least a Week head advantage over the Forces of order.  Many forums where made to flame Dark Angels and their players.

I hope this analogy helps you to understand what I am getting at.

Isn't trolling just the same as 'Thou shalt not bear false witness'?

[Sabby]

Because we are praying to the same God.  He doesn't only heal people who are quote unquote correct.

What makes you say that? If you told a Muslim that him and a Catholic Priest worship the same God, I'd expect he'd have harsh words for you. And what of the many pantheons and more shamanist deities, whose followers make the same claims as you do. You can't have 'there is only the Holy Trinity' and 'There is a dysfunctional family on Mount Olympus that represent a ton of different things"

Jesus teaching about casting out entities in the New testament is pretty clear on the matter, it is only to be done in his name.

So the Bible says, what of it? I lived next to an Aboriginal who believed that placing an empty glass bottle next to the door would alert you to when an evil spirit would enter the home, because the bottle would fall over. He didn't need the Holy Trinity for this practice. Many people hang bushels of Sage over their doors to ward off evil spirits. They never drew power from the Holy Trinity.

Are they all wrong and you are the only one who is right? Can you demonstrate that your belief is more plausible then theirs?

I think you might have read through my posts to quickly.  I was talking about non-abrahimic religions.

Ah, apologies. Point is, the Holy Trinity you put so much stock in puts worship of other Deities as a worse crime then pedophilia. God doesn't even see fit to mention that f**king kids is wrong, but he makes it damn clear that if your not his one and only you'll f**king burn.

The Bible shows that their will be conflict between good and evil until the time of judgement.  We must always be prepared for war.

Tide comes in, tide goes out, ya can't explain that.

Seriously though, predicting war? If I order a steak, and the steak arrives, is that prophecy?

As I was saying their are Dark entities that have power, that do lie, and would like nothing more for people to mistake them for God.  This is why I brought up the different ways enemies wage war.

Where do you get this information from? How do we verify it? Because similar claims are made all over the world. How can you demonstrate that these claims are accurate?

I won't address your analogy because it's based off of the assertion you still haven't provided evidence for.

Everyone will have or does have a gift or gifts they are to share, It wasn't me that was quote unquote special.

Everyone? Where's mine? I guarantee you if I had the power to heal with touch I'd be spending my limited energy on people who actually needed it, not people who slept wrong and feel stiff.

It also speaks in the Bible that Jesus would have peopled healed and that they should go out and proclaim this act as a testimony.

Yeah, and Irish folk tales say that small men dressed in green guard hoards of gold, and that peoples testimony says the rainbow will lead you to it.

As for the other People of the world I still stand fast in my post.  It is our job to help each other, it is our duty to share our gifts to make this world better, if we where to stop hording are money cough cough corporations, look past the quote unquote evaluated money value of the individual,  or just let go of Pride, like in the case of North Korea when the USA and maybe the UN tried to help them after a disaster, they refused the help and then later took all the supplies and gave it only to their military, the world would end up much better.

If your so concerned with humanity pulling itself up out of the muck and making its home a better place for itself, then why do you even need a God? You see the importance of the life we know, so why would you want it to be the doormat to Heaven? Sounds to me like if and when you reach Heaven, you should have some firm questions for the God who doesn't seem to care about the world he made as much as you do.

You're better then God dude. I mean that.

Yes but I talked about this in a different comment.  Nothing is Higher than the Holy Trinity

You know this how?

but to assume nothing else has power is a mistake that can cost a person or persons a hefty price.

And yet God will torture you infinitely if you accept any of those powers as equal to or better then him. THAT is a hefty price.

I don't know of anyone that uses filthy water to baptize children

It's called Holy Water, and recent studies have shown that it is unsafe for human consumption. And yet newborns are submerbed in it. We expose them to real sickness to protect them from an imaginary one.

As for the crystal who knows, if it works it might have been blessed or have something Dark attached to it.

No.

[SiL]

What makes you say that? If you told a Muslim that him and a Catholic Priest worship the same God, I'd expect he'd have harsh words for you.

Only if they didn't know what they were talking about.

[Sabby]

The point is, every Deity can't exist at once. Some are mutually exclusive. So even if a God exists, some Gods must be false. How do you demonstrate that your God is not one of the false ones?

[ChrisPachi]

You harass Peter Weyland until he gives you a spaceship.

[Sabby]

Please don't bring Prometheus into this .___. my brain hurts enough as it is.



He'll need a lot more then a Flan, but hey, it's a start.

[maledoro]

When you call on something that is what will responded to your calls.

That doesn't work with cats. Anyway, anybody or anything could be mistaken for something else.

As for the Priest I has never seen him period until I walked up to the table.  Hands, feet, face, I had never seen before, and I had never heard his voice before ether.  He was pretty nice, after that day he was in my work place and always offered me jam and peanut butter gram crackers, or cream cheese and gram crackers.  Like two weeks later he was gone and I never saw him again.

Did he give you anything else?

I joined the Forces of disorder to help kill the IOM.

1. Don't they wear tights and capes? 2. Why would you want to destroy the Institute of Medicine?

[Darth Rinzler]

This is an example,  I used to play 40k,  I joined the Forces of disorder to help kill the IOM.  I purposely made a fake Forces of Order account and feed them false information.  I told them that the Dark Angels where really fighting for the forces of disorder.  I told them all the players in Gibson City IL had started fighting other forces of order.  I also brought up all the distrust other chapters had about Dark Angels, my work caused such an up roar and in fighting that we Forces of Disorder had at least a Week head advantage over the Forces of order.  Many forums where made to flame Dark Angels and their players.

I hope this analogy helps you to understand what I am getting at.

Isn't trolling just the same as 'Thou shalt not bear false witness'?

Its not trolling when their is an object other than upsetting people.  I wanted my side to win, I used a different approach other than fighting other players on a game table.  Deception, Allusion, and Surprise are the the ultimate weapons.   And if it makes any diffrence I attacked the Dark Angels community before I became devout, I was in my I hate Good and Bad faze sort of.

[KirklandSignature]

Not much longer until the dreaded winter solstice celebrations commence. Who else plans on protesting against the religionists desire to display their bullshit in our towns and cities?

You may be alone here.

Not much longer until the dreaded winter solstice celebrations commence. Who else plans on protesting against the religionists desire to display their bullshit in our towns and cities?


Who cares

These guys are not ready for the atheist revolution...

[Sabby]

There is no Atheist Revolution, just a much better representation of Atheism, at least in the states.