Theology

[BANE]

Bjorn, Your saying "why did God make me an atheist?", "why did he make me not believe?" shows me you don't think free will exists. Do you?

I do believe in free will. I meant that from a Christians point of view, assuming this God was all knowing and omnipotent, nothing could happen without him knowing it, thereore if he'd created me surely he would have done so with full knowledge of the person I'd become.

Which makes me wonder that if He does know everything that will ever happen, what's the point of Him doing anything? Is it in the Bible (this is for you maledoro) that God can foresee exactly what will happen in the future? Because surely then any action He takes He can already foresee having made, which makes me think that God Himself would be slave to his own power. So I don't really think He knows exactly who you'd become, but instead has a 'plan' for you, and given free will you may or may not remain on said path. If he did know exactly how your life turned out, then what would be the point of creating you and allowing you to live your life?

I don't believe in God, I absolutely have free will but theoretically, if God was real and had all the powers some Christians believe he has, would any of us truly have free will?

If we were all mindless slaves then creation and belief would be meaningless to God.

[maledoro]

Which makes me wonder that if He does know everything that will ever happen, what's the point of Him doing anything? Is it in the Bible (this is for you maledoro) that God can foresee exactly what will happen in the future?

I'll let you see for yourself: Clicky

Because surely then any action He takes He can already foresee having made, which makes me think that God Himself would be slave to his own power. So I don't really think He knows exactly who you'd become, but instead has a 'plan' for you, and given free will you may or may not remain on said path. If he did know exactly how your life turned out, then what would be the point of creating you and allowing you to live your life?

More on that.

If we were all mindless slaves then creation and belief would be meaningless to God.

Why? He'll still want others to worship him and stroke his ego. Who better than mindless slaves?

[BANE]

Which makes me wonder that if He does know everything that will ever happen, what's the point of Him doing anything? Is it in the Bible (this is for you maledoro) that God can foresee exactly what will happen in the future?

I'll let you see for yourself: Clicky

Because surely then any action He takes He can already foresee having made, which makes me think that God Himself would be slave to his own power. So I don't really think He knows exactly who you'd become, but instead has a 'plan' for you, and given free will you may or may not remain on said path. If he did know exactly how your life turned out, then what would be the point of creating you and allowing you to live your life?

More on that.

If we were all mindless slaves then creation and belief would be meaningless to God.

Why? He'll still want others to worship him and stroke his ego. Who better than mindless slaves?

Those who can think for themselves and therefore find new and creative ways to profess their admiration for His kindness and glory I would imagine.

[maledoro]

Those who can think for themselves and therefore find new and creative ways to profess their admiration for His kindness and glory I would imagine.

Moreso than those who would not dare to question his motives or existence?

[BANE]

How satisfying would a praise be from someone with no choice but to do so?

[JokersWarPig]

Something that bothers and confuses me; if you don't worship (I say worship rather than ''believe'' because I think it's perfectly possible to believe in a god without worshipping him/her simply because they are a powerful god/being) God, then no matter how good a person you are, you're going to Hell to be tormented and burned in fire for all eternity.

This is from a Catholic perspective, I know all religions differ.
It's always been my understanding that if you believe in God and accept God that you would be allowed into Heaven.

I wouldn't take my word for it though as I haven't regularly gone to church since my confirmation in 2006 nor have I ever completely read the bible.

[SM]

Short version in Catholicism revolves around confession and repentance of sin.

[Sabby]

Bjorn, Your saying "why did God make me an atheist?", "why did he make me not believe?" shows me you don't think free will exists. Do you?

Oh? Lets look at that. Assume that the God the Christian Bible, Yahweh, exists, and created this world for humans, and we will ultimately go to Heaven or Hell in the end.

If free will does not exist and he knows what we will choose, then we have no choice in where we go.

If free will does exist and does not know what we will choose, then he has made our options very unclear, and we are punished 'infinitely' for a 'finite' crime, the crime being skepticism.

The only way to get around this is to say "Oh, I just believe God is cool and loves us and junk", in which case, what your worshipping is a nebulous bunch of nothing, based on nothing, that you can't describe to anyone, let alone convince them that it is true.

I had two Jerhovahs witnesses here today who claimed that the Bible could help me in my life and that they had proof of God. After a half an hour of me asking them direct questions, and them refusing the answer and change the subject, everything was stripped away until the only thing they had left was "I believe it in my heart. I know it is true"

Well, that's not enough for me, and it shouldn't be enough for anyone, and if any entity anywhere saw this as a crime worthy of infinite punishment, then it's a f**king monster.

[TheLoneSpoon]

IF UR NOT ATHEIST FUK U!!!!!!!11!!1

[Sabby]

That's a bit excessive :/ Many Atheists were once Theists man. It took reading the Bible more closely and looking at organized Religions impact on society to show me I wasn't a Theist after all (though I wasn't part of any Church, I was kind of 'searching' for something to believe)

[TheLoneSpoon]

FUKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

[maledoro]

That's a bit excessive :/ Many Atheists were once Theists man. It took reading the Bible more closely and looking at organized Religions impact on society to show me I wasn't a Theist after all (though I wasn't part of any Church, I was kind of 'searching' for something to believe)

The quickest way to becoming an atheist is to read the bible.

[Xenoscream]

The worst thing about being an Atheist (I am one) is the thought of death.

I mean once you die, that's it. No memories, no nothing, no eternal life. Pretty crap basically.

It's a sorry state of affairs and when I think about it makes me wonder what to do with my life, and if it really matters anyway, I mean the story of our planet and the human race is destined to me a rather short lived one in the cosmic scheme of things.

Have you ever noticed how religions sell one thing above all? Some kind of afterlife, that's what it's all about my friends, fear of ceasing to be completely. Can't say I blame em.

[Sabby]

I've always found the idea of an Afterlife... troubling. I mean, if this life is an eye blink before eternity, then what's the point of it? Everything we achieve here will be forgotten after a few trillion relative years in a timeless realm. What if I'd like to cease existing then? I don't care how nice an afterlife could be, nothing will keep the person I am happy and sane for eternity. The only way eternity would work is for me to change for it, in which case, I don't go to Heaven anyway.

I see no reason to believe that anything exists after my body and mind expires, and this makes my life much more valuable. The time I have means much more to me then if it were a step into the abyss.

[BANE]

Bjorn, Your saying "why did God make me an atheist?", "why did he make me not believe?" shows me you don't think free will exists. Do you?

If free will does exist and does not know what we will choose, then he has made our options very unclear

I'd say they were rather clear cut and straightforward...