Why did the movies fail?

[Local Trouble]

I imagine the success of the previous movie, an Oscar nod and the troubled production of Alien 3 gave her quite a bit more leverage in getting her way during the second go-round.

[D88M]

The two first items failed in both movies, and visual effects for the most part in the second one, in the first one they were decent. The movies are a mess in a lot of aspects.

[Scorpio]

They're not leading men, they can't carry a movie and hope to sell tickets.

Michael Biehn isn't a leading man?

What?

....WHAT?

The Terminator? Hello? The dude had to carry that film on his shoulders. Not only did he have to deliver exposition, he had to deliver it backed by a lot of energy and try to pack in some kind of nuance. Almost all of the plot sits in his lap. Not to mention he's pretty much been a consistent performer and actor his entire career. Tombstone, Navy SEALs, The Abyss, Aliens, Planet Terror, Blood Dragon.

Arnold carried The Terminator, not Biehn.  Biehn has always been a supporting player, not a leading man.  Maybe in independent or low budget films, but not big studio movies.

And Lance Hendrickson may not be a "leading man" but he is one helluva strong supporting actor and a worker. That guy put's it all in for his craft. Even people who dislike AVP 04, and the 2010 AVP game think Lance was a highlight at least.

I don't disagree.

Weaver didn't start as a draw. She was literally no one when they made Alien, and to be perfectly honest if the behind the scenes situation is anything to go by it could have very easily gone the other way for Weaver.

I know, but Alien made her a huge star.  It was actually Tom Skerritt that got top billing on Alien.  But Alien was an ensemble piece, not a star vehicle.  Alien and Aliens made the Alien series a star vehicle for Weaver. 

[The Cruentus]

Arnold wasn't well known back then either, his previous films that I know of was Hercules and Conan. So he wasn't big shot A lister back then. You really don't need star power to make a film good. In fact plenty of films with A listers has failed miserably and its arguably worse for them than an unknown because an unknown doesn't have a reputation that can get tainted. Hollywood is brutal man.

[Scorpio]

Yeah Hollywood is extremely competitive.

You forget Arnold was Mr Universe before he became an actor.  It's like supermodels, you can get your foot in the door just from the physical, acting talent secondary.

And he was well known back in the 70s/early 80s, from accounts I've read.  From Mr Universe title, Conan (Conan was a big hit, spawning an entire genre of imitators), Pumping Iron, plus Terminator was a low budget movie.

I'm not saying star power makes a film good, but that's Hollywood accounting.  You're only as good as your last box office.  That's why Shane Black got to direct The Predator, because Iron Man 3 made a billion dollars, not because of his 'talent'.

[OpenMaw]

Arnold carried The Terminator, not Biehn.  Biehn has always been a supporting player, not a leading man.  Maybe in independent or low budget films, but not big studio movies.

That is so wrong on so many levels. The Terminator would have been a shit show if there hadn't been a competent lead playing Kyle. Without a believable Kyle you have no movie.

[Scorpio]

What I meant was that Arnold was the star of that show.  He is the title character after all.  Not that he didn't have good supporting players like Biehn and Hamilton to help him carry the movie.  But the main reason to watch Terminator for most people is Arnold.

[Huggs]

You really don't need star power to make a film good.

Dang straight. Look at "The Raid" movies.

Having all the talent in the world doesn't guarantee a good movie. Cough..Dawn of Justice..Cough.

[Scorpio]

Nobody is saying you need star power to make a movie good.  I love many foreign language and independent films that have actors I have never heard of.  But that's how the big studio system works.  Hollywood is a business after all.  They calculate how many tickets a name is likely to sell, and cast the movie with that in mind.  Of course that doesn't mean that movies sell on names alone.

[bb-15]

Nobody is saying you need star power to make a movie good.

Yes. Lacking star power was not one of the problems with Paul W.S. Anderson's AVP.
But casting was a problem for AVP.
Sanaa Lathan, Raoul Bova & Ewen Bremner were not right for an Alien or a Predator movie.

Second problem is with Anderson as a director. In terms of setting up a strange world (including with design) and setting up tense situations he's not at the same level of Scott, Cameron or Fincher. In terms of setting up & delivering straight action he's not as good as Cameron or McTiernan.

As for Requiem, it's just a grade B slasher flick. For people who like that, fine but Alien, Aliens & Predator are not in that same category. They were going for something iconic; in terms of our worst fears as well as a duel of wits between capable heroes and clever villains.

[Scorpio]

The casting was fine for the movie it is.  It's not supposed to be a serious movie, but a fun adventure.

And I have no issues with Paul Anderson's directing, the guy can set up pretty good shots and knows how to handle action sequences on a tight budget.

Go watch his first feature, Shopping, if you don't believe me.

[SM]

Death Race is pretty cool, as is Event Horizon.

Soldier is pretty crap, Resident Evil is average at best and I lasted maybe 20 minutes in Three Muskeers before turning it off.

Anderson has been fortunate to have such a long career for making so many mediocre movies.

[OpenMaw]

Soldier is pretty crap,

Honestly i'd put it up there with Event Horizon.

[SM]

Many seem to rate it.  Kurt Russell helps it, but all the sets and VFX looked so incredibly fake.

[skull-splitter]

Many seem to rate it.  Kurt Russell helps it, but all the sets and VFX looked so incredibly fake.

Overdesigned stuff killed Event Horizon and many a film in the 90's anyway.