Theology

[Cal427eb]

He didn't ask for people that did anything in the name of atheists. How can you take action in the name of believing in nothing?

[MoonerSK]

He didn't ask for people that did anything in the name of atheists. How can you take action in the name of believing in nothing?

well there can be a psychopathic killer who kills just believers

[Cal427eb]

He didn't ask for people that did anything in the name of atheists. How can you take action in the name of believing in nothing?

well there can be a psychopathic killer who kills just believers

I suppose, but what would that accomplish? Usually when someone commits terrorism or murder in the name of religion it's either to help themselves or to be some sort of punishment.

[Kimarhi]

And muslims.

[BANE]

What about the infringement of rights? My right to life or my right to my property? Could that not be the common denominator that we can look at to objectively say an action is right or wrong?

Haha I love this post. It is a perfect summation of the optimistic fantasy land we've built for ourselves as a species.

[OmegaZilla]

Enlighten up.

[whiterabbit]

What about the infringement of rights? My right to life or my right to my property? Could that not be the common denominator that we can look at to objectively say an action is right or wrong?

Haha I love this post. It is a perfect summation of the optimistic fantasy land we've built for ourselves as a species.

Yea it is. I mean it is an assumption that we all learn and grow up with it but is only as good as the paper it was written on.

In the case of murder, a cop killing someone is treated differently than a civilian because the cop is trained in knowing when and when not to use a firearm. A civilian, typically speaking, doesn't possess that level of discretion and knowledge.

i think he ment that when you kill a cop it is treated diffrently than when you kill a civilian

Ah. In that case, I don't think it should be. I don't see what makes a cop's life any more valuable than the guy next to him, but that's just me.

Yea that's what I meant, however both ideas are technically the same. Killing cops is punished more harshly because they are law enforcement, if that requires a harsher punishment is debatable. However the way most municipalities handle it is by reducing the social statues of civilians. Such as here, murdering a Honolulu cop is 1st degree murder but to get the same charge on an everyday person you have to kill 2. Otherwise it is 2nd degree murder. So imo that basically means cops are worth twice as much on the humanity scale.

[stephen]

What about the infringement of rights? My right to life or my right to my property? Could that not be the common denominator that we can look at to objectively say an action is right or wrong?

Haha I love this post. It is a perfect summation of the optimistic fantasy land we've built for ourselves as a species.

How so?

Yea it is. I mean it is an assumption that we all learn and grow up with it but is only as good as the paper it was written on.

I don't believe so.  I happen to believe murder is wrong.  Regardless of who has done it and what upbringing they may have had or what culture they come from.  It is also irrelevant if the person believes that the murder they committed was ok.

It is no less a murder, and the person murdered is no less dead.

[Sabby]

In the case of murder, a cop killing someone is treated differently than a civilian because the cop is trained in knowing when and when not to use a firearm. A civilian, typically speaking, doesn't possess that level of discretion and knowledge.

i think he ment that when you kill a cop it is treated diffrently than when you kill a civilian

Ah. In that case, I don't think it should be. I don't see what makes a cop's life any more valuable than the guy next to him, but that's just me.

We live in a social hierarchy. Different values are assigned to different positions. A police officer is a voluntary position for someone who uphold our laws and the general peace, something that we enjoy as a community. Asking why a cop is seen as more important then a random citizen is like asking why we prefer order to chaos.

[BANE]

Not a very good comparison.

[Sabby]

What about the infringement of rights? My right to life or my right to my property? Could that not be the common denominator that we can look at to objectively say an action is right or wrong?

Haha I love this post. It is a perfect summation of the optimistic fantasy land we've built for ourselves as a species.

How so?

Yea it is. I mean it is an assumption that we all learn and grow up with it but is only as good as the paper it was written on.

I don't believe so.  I happen to believe murder is wrong.  Regardless of who has done it and what upbringing they may have had or what culture they come from.  It is also irrelevant if the person believes that the murder they committed was ok.

It is no less a murder, and the person murdered is no less dead.

There is a man who has raped several children over the course of 20 years. One of those children is a part of your family. The justice system has failed to put this man away, and it is becoming clear that he will be allowed to continue, thanks to his connections and general corruption of the system. You come across this man offering to help a little girl find her mother, and he tells you to leave.

You attack him and you kill him.

How is this murder comparable to a thug wanting to kill a random for the thrill of it? No morality is purely black and white. Saying all murder is wrong is as foolish as saying all murder is right.

Not a very good comparison.

How so?

[whiterabbit]

What about the infringement of rights? My right to life or my right to my property? Could that not be the common denominator that we can look at to objectively say an action is right or wrong?

Haha I love this post. It is a perfect summation of the optimistic fantasy land we've built for ourselves as a species.

How so?

Yea it is. I mean it is an assumption that we all learn and grow up with it but is only as good as the paper it was written on.

I don't believe so.  I happen to believe murder is wrong.  Regardless of who has done it and what upbringing they may have had or what culture they come from.  It is also irrelevant if the person believes that the murder they committed was ok.

It is no less a murder, and the person murdered is no less dead.

Murder is wrong. Not disagreeing, just saying that those rights you believe you are entitled are really imaginary. There is nothing stopping someone from taking your life if they want too. For right or wrong. It's just frowned upon by the rules that govern society. This is of course why it is so important to protect our self giving rights and freedoms.

Then there is the judgement of the action committed. Was it justified? Is murder really always a bad thing? If you went back in time before Hitler came to power, should you kill him? Actually could you even do it? As in the people around him would probably stop you and of course those were the same people that allowed him to do what today we would consider evil. Yet back then that was the "rights" in play at the time.

We live in a social hierarchy. Different values are assigned to different positions. A police officer is a voluntary position for someone who uphold our laws and the general peace, something that we enjoy as a community. Asking why a cop is seen as more important then a random citizen is like asking why we prefer order to chaos.

I understand the idea that cops are authoritative figures but still, murder is murder in my humble opinion. Social hierarchy is bullshit.

[BANE]

Not a very good comparison.

How so?

You've gone too extreme.

I mean I get the point you're making, I just don't think the comparison is good.

[stephen]

I'm not going to play the hypothetical game sorry.

There's so many issues with your hypothetical situation that I could go on and on about that make answering it impossible.

All I can say is that it comes back to the definition of murder.  If an act of killing is defined as murder, then it is wrong.

[whiterabbit]

I'm not going to play the hypothetical game sorry.

There's so many issues with your hypothetical situation that I could go on and on about that make answering it impossible.

All I can say is that it comes back to the definition of murder.  If an act of killing is defined as murder, then it is wrong.

Cool.

But if some dad shoots the local drug lord and I'm on the jury... I'd probably let him go free based on my free will. Which I guess would make me a hypocrite as I just typed "social hierarchy is bullshit".