Alien or Predator?

[SiL]

No, it's a way to give the human more chance. More thrilling, more valuable.

But humans pose no physical threat. It's not more of a chance. In a purely hand-to-hand fight a Predator will win.

[Race_of_Hunters]

Or not. Taking trophies in no way implies honour.

I addressed the other dudes post that echoed yours above.  Read ...

[MadassAlex]

this

No way is too much though. As for humans, for preds it can go also. But it's up to the individual, not the race itself, so cannot be described as base of behaviour.

I can get behind that idea.

No doubt that a Predator would be considered a complete badass amongst its kind if it could prove that it took certain trophies certain ways. And some would attach moral significance to that kind of thing.

The whole keeping-skull-as-respect thing has different interpretations. For instance, the mutilation of the corpse might be a symbol of dominance more than anything else.

[Race_of_Hunters]

When you play the game with the best, you straight-up lose, nigga

Sure it can be considered honor ...

If the Predator has such high respect for it's prey that it keeps its skull as a trophy, that is showing his prey honor.

If he didn't care for the kill, or said prey was just cannon fodder that he killed in self defense and he left its worthless body to rot without giving it so much of thought, that would not be showing something a sense of honor.

Keeping something as a trophy shows a sense of distinction of that prey, and showing something a sense of distinction is the definition of HONOR ...

[MadassAlex]

No. My last girlfriend was distinct from the others, but that doesn't mean anything I ever did to her was honourable.

In fact, distinction can be a seat if dishonour. What about a hated foe that you went out of your way to fight dirty against? Distinction. But you're fighting dirty.

Honour is fighting your enemy on equal terms. Predators do not do this. The movies don't show this. Not even all the EU material likes the idea - the original AvP comic had Predators slaughtering unarmed families and civilians that had the bad luck to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.

It's an inconsistent concept.

[Race_of_Hunters]

No. My last girlfriend was distinct from the others, but that doesn't mean anything I ever did to her was honourable.

I can't even converse with you because you keep making convoluted comparisons that make little to no sense given the comparison to the subject matter in question

And you stay not knowing the very definition of the words you're arguing.

Keeping a skull is showing a prey an honor of distinction, value, high regard ... which by definition is showing something honor.

And even to address your unrelated point, the Predator has fought quite a few enemies on equal terms.  And I've touched on quite a few in this thread alone.

Predator taking off all his gear for 1 v 1 combat in the finale of the original is lost in your memory bank, for starters?

[SiL]

Honour has a huge list of definitions.

[MadassAlex]

Not an equal battle because the Predator was so much stronger than Arnie.

And the reason I keep using the examples I do is because I'm bring the concept down to its most basic level. Using examples that don't fit the context of the films is fine because it shows that you can't generalise the definitions you're using.

[Race_of_Hunters]

Honour has a huge list of definitions.

Exactly ...

[MadassAlex]

Kane's Son didn't take advantage of his incredible speed and agility in Alien because he felt that the Nostromo crew didn't have enough of a chance.

Egg-morphing was a symbol of his honour, taking the ones he thought to be worthy to be converted into his own kind.

[Race_of_Hunters]

Not an equal battle because the Predator was so much stronger than Arnie.

No, it is an equal battle.  Predator just so happens to be physically stronger.  He still shows him the respect of removing any weaponry.  That is honor.  Wait ... because he's an other world life form and happens to be stronger naturally, that it doesn't count as showing honor?  Was he supposed to tie his hand behind his back to make it fair or honorable in your eyes?

It's a fair fight.  He puts himself at the level of Dutch in that scene.  He acknowledges he has no weapons, could've killed him on the spot, gives him creedance or respect given he's been such an admirable foe ... removes his gear and fights him in hand to hand combat.

That isn't negated by the fact he just so happens to be stronger.  Arnie is still physically capable of defending himself.  But yes, it's a very equal conditions.  And he gave Dutch that out of a sense of honor or respect.

No ... all the definitions I use aren't generalized.  They are the exact meanings of the word, bruh.

[MadassAlex]

Arnie hit the Predator in the face and it didn't even flinch. It picked him up - with one hand, mind - and threw him several feet. Arnie struggled to flee while the Predator just walked towards him, Terminator-style. Anytime clearly had complete and utter dominance of the combat situation and knew it. Arnie didn't have a chance.

And putting an enemy in a situation where they have no chance of winning is pretty much the textbook definition of being a dick. 

[Race_of_Hunters]

Kane's Son didn't take advantage of his incredible speed and agility in Alien because he felt that the Nostromo crew didn't have enough of a chance.

The agenda shows itself?  When in ALIEN does the creature ever show its ability to be incredibly fast, and then do we see a CONCIOUS effort on its part to give it's prey a chance?

It doesn't.

ALIEN is an instinctual creature that just "does things" ...

It isn't "clouded by delusions of morality, or conciousness"

[MadassAlex]

The agenda shows itself?  When in ALIEN does the creature ever show its ability to be incredibly fast, and then do we see a CONCIOUS effort on its part to give it's prey a chance?

It doesn't.

ALIEN is an instinctual creature that just "does things" ...

It isn't "clouded by delusions of morality, or conciousness"

I was being sarcastic and showing the fallacy of your argument in the process. You choose to believe in a very selective interpretation of P1 and P2 that supports your point. But when I applied that same selective interpretation to A1, you denied it completely.

EDIT: You also assume that I think honour is inherently good. I think it's a concept that weakens any monster that we're supposed to fear. One of the reasons I dislike honour when it comes to the Predator is that it essentially hamstrings it.

[Race_of_Hunters]

I was being sarcastic and showing the fallacy of your argument in the process. You choose to believe in a very selective interpretation of P1 and P2 that supports your point. But when I applied that same selective interpretation to A1, you denied it completely.

No, because my points are proven in real context in the story.  For instance we see Predator use his weaponry to kill countless prey in the film.  Then we see him CHOOSE to not use those options at his disposal when it comes time to go at Dutch, and instead opts to show his prey respect of fighting him without any weaponry. 

In Alien we never see the Alien use incredible speed, then see him conciously not use said physical abilities to give his prey a chance.  YOU made that up.  And twisted it in your mind into thinking you proved some kind of point.  LMAO ...