Has AvPR improved wih age?

[HuDaFuK]

Shit, new alien, new style of procreation. I don't see the big problem with that one.

Because it completely and immediately undermines the previously very complex reproductive cycle. If you don't need the Egg and Facehugger at all and can simply chunder a Chestburster into existence, why would you even bother with all those extra steps? It makes no sense for one to exist alongside the other.

It's still better than the SUPER facehugger. Hell the magical space egg is better than that too.

Like Hicks, I actually really like the Royal Facehugger idea. It makes sense for a Queen to have additional protection from her inception, which the Royal Facehugger provides twofold in the way it looks a bit tougher, and also provides a bodyguard for her while she grows. And as SiL says, it has a very real precedent in the insect kingdom.

[predxeno]

Except the Bros had several different reasons for the eggbarfing rubbish and it was only after being complained at by fans online that they gave any reasons. No such reasons made it into the film - it's just as messy as Alien 3's eggs

Really?  That's strange because I was a member of PlanetAVP at the time, this was before I joined AvPGalaxy, and I remember explicitly that months before the film was released it was revealed that Chet was part queen and that's why it could eggbarf; this was the reason why Chet was given a Queen-shaped crown while the Predalien in AVP2010, which the Strause Bros. consulted on, wasn't.

It's apparent that the history of AVPR's development is clouded in confusion among the AVP community as I have literally seen several different versions of it on this forum alone through the years.  For what it's worth I have been a fan of AVPR since the very first trailer and I have made learning its background one of my top priorities as an AVP fan so I feel I have a more accurate understanding of its story (that's just my 2 cents tho).

That said, I do agree that the magic egg was still messy and ACMs attempt to rectify anything is just as silly. Personally I preferred the lone facehugger coming aboard with the Queen and having a run around during the credits of Aliens.

I think A:CM's explanation was just overconvoluted as opposed to silly since it was obviously meant to connect to a whole separate game campaign and all that.  However, A:CM's explanation is still vastly superior to Alien 3's (since A3 offered no explanation, this is to be expected) despite all its flaws.

The problem is it's pants on head retarded. It's a new host, but it's still an Alien. Host doesn't come into it.

And the Runner was going to coccoon people.

Actually, the original explanation was that Chet was a young queen but then the Strause Bros. changed it after the bad fan reaction, even I think the host explanation was dumb and that the Strause Bros. should have just stuck to their first explanation.

[Corporal Hicks]

Except the Bros had several different reasons for the eggbarfing rubbish and it was only after being complained at by fans online that they gave any reasons. No such reasons made it into the film - it's just as messy as Alien 3's eggs

Really?  That's strange because I was a member of PlanetAVP at the time, this was before I joined AvPGalaxy, and I remember explicitly that months before the film was released it was revealed that Chet was part queen and that's why it could eggbarf; this was the reason why Chet was given a Queen-shaped crown while the Predalien in AVP2010, which the Strause Bros. consulted on, wasn't.

It's apparent that the history of AVPR's development is clouded in confusion among the AVP community as I have literally seen several different versions of it on this forum alone through the years.  For what it's worth I have been a fan of AVPR since the very first trailer and I have made learning its background one of my top priorities as an AVP fan so I feel I have a more accurate understanding of its story (that's just my 2 cents tho).

We were told it was a young queen and that it was a result of the Predator breeding methods...But again, neither reasons are in the film.

I'd recommend having a read of the Archives if you're really curious.

[predxeno]

Thanks, I've read through the archives before though I didn't see anything that contradicted my recollection of events, was there a specific post you had in mind?  As I said before from what I've been able to discern, Chet was always meant to be a juvenile queen which was why it could eggbarf, it wasn't explicitly stated in the film because no one in the story would have known (or cared) enough about Alien biology to have made it a point.

[Perfect-Organism]

Has the Predator reproductive system ever been established?  If not, well, what if they "egg-barf" between themselves to impregnate each other and subsequently give oral birth?  I mean that could be a trait picked up by the Alien / Predator hybrid...

[predxeno]

I think John Shirley, author of Predator: Forever Midnight, said that the male "Hish" sprays something into the female who then produces a litter of children.  Of course, the Yautja anatomy might be different as the Hish intermittently switch genders while nothing like that is ever referenced in regards to the Yautja.

As for how Aliens may mate, Steve Perry mentioned there are different male and female genders as well and I inferred from the comics that the male genitalia is hidden in the second mouth and it extends outward into the Queen's second mouth during mating.

[Corporal Hicks]

Thanks, I've read through the archives before though I didn't see anything that contradicted my recollection of events, was there a specific post you had in mind? 

I was looking for the PredAlien Reproduction thread but got bored of looking. I'll try again in a bit and have a look.

Has the Predator reproductive system ever been established?  If not, well, what if they "egg-barf" between themselves to impregnate each other and subsequently give oral birth?  I mean that could be a trait picked up by the Alien / Predator hybrid...

From what I remember, Perry's Yautja just have sex. I'll have to take predxeno's word on the Hish because I haven't read FM for a long time. Nothing is ever said like this barfing thing before.

[predxeno]

For those interested, John Shirley had this to say about Hish sex:

I looked at my manuscript file and as far as I can see the only reference to sex is to spraying secretions on the female--this may possibly not be too literal, or may not contradict what the Perrys have, if we really look closely. They didnt mention the sex changing thing though. But I wonder if they said anything to really contradict it. Predators stay in one gender for quite  a while in my story.

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=773.15

I don't know if it was ever published in the book itself, but he did post about it on this forum.

[Perfect-Organism]

Who was it that called the Predator Pu$$y-Face?  Harrigan?  Perhaps there's a reason why their mouths look so... vaginal? 

[predxeno]

Yeah, it was Harrigan, he said it as he and Pussyface were hanging over the side of the building. "Your move, Pussyface." "Shit happens."  Personally though, if anything I'd have to say eggbarfing is how the Aliens naturally reproduce with each other as they have no outward genitals where such appendages usually lie so the only logical conclusion would be that their reproductive organs are in their already existing orifices which is their mouths.

[Perfect-Organism]

Yeah, it was Harrigan, he said it as the and Pussyface were hanging over the side of the building. "Your move, Pussyface." "Shit happens."  Personally though, if anything I'd have to say eggbarfing is how the Aliens naturally reproduce with each other as they have no outward genitals where such appendages usually lie so the only logical conclusion would be that their reproductive organs are in their already existing orifices which is their mouths.

I'm not sure if that's, strictly speaking, logical, but live long and prosper anyway.   

[SpreadEagleBeagle]

What makes Alien genius is they gave the concept credibility. As does Aliens.

ALIEN pulled through whereas ALIENS messed up that part epically the last 20 or so minutes of the movie.

Aliens. The evil penis monster is vanquished and the last survivor drifts off to sleep to live happily ever after. Which is exactly how Aliens ends, except with more dead penis monsters and more survivors. In both cases it's the sequel that interrupts the survivor{s}'s otherwise pleasant victory.

Not at all. The humans were never on top at any point during the movie. Even when Ripley ejected the harpooned Alien, who almost came on to her in an almost sexual manner, we still had that feeling of this rapist creature could come back and violate us. There is no rape-and-revenge thing going on in ALIEN. You sweat through the movie and never enter action hero territory as you do in ALIENS (Rambo Ripley cleaning up the Hive, and Powerloader vs. Queen Godzilla fight, and Ripley climbing up a ladder with a Powerloader and alien queen hanging on her foot while being sucked into space).

In ALIEN Ripley drifts off alone (...and the traitorous cat Jones), violated and f**ked up in ALIEN, whereas in ALIENS she goes home on a military Starship together with her newly found lovey dovy family (papa Hix, baby Newt and their loyal dog Bishop).

So theoretically, yes, you have a point, but in reality ALIEN and ALIENS are two completely different beasts dealing with the formula in very different manners. ALIENS, safe and pleasant. ALIEN, not so much.

Killing off [some of] the main characters in the opening scene in inglorious fashion is slasher movie sequel 101,

They didn't. The most poetic, beautiful and poignant scene in all of the movies is The Funeral Scene. That scene completely nullifies the argument that Hix & Noot's deaths were cheap, or inglorious, blah blah etc.

...as is populating the movie with faceless, indistinguishable, unknown characters who exist solely to die in increasingly brutal fashion. Friday the 13th Part II et al.

They fill a symbolic purpose. Fiorina is in a way the purgatory and the inmates are in limbo. In the eyes of God we all look the same. It's your actions that set you aside. The irony of that mankind's most hated, shunned and despised individuals are the ones saving mankind, and thus finding redemption in their deaths, working together till the end knowing very well they will die, is beautiful. Their horrific deaths kind of work along the Old Testament doctrine their apocalyptic god inhabits. The symbolism is there and masterful but apparently subtle enough since too many Aliens fans seem to miss it (probably on purpose).

The only thing Alien3 has going for it to push it from "low-end" horror is production value, performances, great direction and Ripley's sacrifice at the end.Everything else, particularly in terms of plot - shock deaths, bland chase sequences, increased gore in favour of genuine suspense or terror - is exactly bottom of the barrel slasher flick fare.

I see where you're coming from SiL, but you're really simplifying it, lots of cherry picking some details while ignoring others. I'm curious though why you defend ALIENS so much but have no problem throwing the other movies under the bus? Because it sure as hell has nothing to do with objectivity and such, even though you try to make it sound like that's the case. This is not the first time we've discussed  ALIENS & A3, SiL. You're just as biased as I am.

[Corporal Hicks]

Yeah, it was Harrigan, he said it as the and Pussyface were hanging over the side of the building. "Your move, Pussyface." "Shit happens."  Personally though, if anything I'd have to say eggbarfing is how the Aliens naturally reproduce with each other as they have no outward genitals where such appendages usually lie so the only logical conclusion would be that their reproductive organs are in their already existing orifices which is their mouths.

Eerrr...no because Aliens don't reproduce with each other.

[Perfect-Organism]

If we ever see a Predator love scene, I think that will be the end of the franchise.  Or it could be the beginning of something very funny.

[predxeno]

Yeah, it was Harrigan, he said it as the and Pussyface were hanging over the side of the building. "Your move, Pussyface." "Shit happens."  Personally though, if anything I'd have to say eggbarfing is how the Aliens naturally reproduce with each other as they have no outward genitals where such appendages usually lie so the only logical conclusion would be that their reproductive organs are in their already existing orifices which is their mouths.

Eerrr...no because Aliens don't reproduce with each other.

and

Yeah, it was Harrigan, he said it as the and Pussyface were hanging over the side of the building. "Your move, Pussyface." "Shit happens."  Personally though, if anything I'd have to say eggbarfing is how the Aliens naturally reproduce with each other as they have no outward genitals where such appendages usually lie so the only logical conclusion would be that their reproductive organs are in their already existing orifices which is their mouths.

I'm not sure if that's, strictly speaking, logical, but live long and prosper anyway.   

My brother just told me the same thing.   But as I said, this is just the explanation I formed with Steve Perry's assertion that Aliens can have sex and a picture of what I liken to be an Alien penis in one of the drawings in Aliens: Reapers.