The SONG OF ICE AND FIRE Thread

Started by Shasvre, Apr 19, 2011, 10:36:01 PM

Author
The SONG OF ICE AND FIRE Thread (Read 464,989 times)

The1PerfectOrganism

The1PerfectOrganism

#4830
Certainly.

Biomechanoid

Biomechanoid

#4831
Not to worry GOT fans, hang onto your britches, I see in the future HBO pulling a George Lucas by re-branding Game of Thrones to 'Game of Thrones: Return of the Targaryen' to sync up with their upcoming series. 'Game of Thrones: Rogue Arya and the Menace Beyond the West.'  :P

The1PerfectOrganism

The1PerfectOrganism

#4832
Awful, lol.

Biomechanoid

Biomechanoid

#4833
Nah, nah, man, it's genius! lol! Those series will then be followed by:
Game of Thrones: A New Hodor
Game of Thrones: The Unsullied Strike Back
Game of Thrones: Attack of the Free Folk
Game of Thrones: Revenge of the Lannisters
Game of Thrones: The Freys Awaken
....and Game of Thrones: The Last White Walker

LastSonofKrypton

Quote from: Biomechanoid on May 22, 2019, 01:01:11 PM
Nah, nah, man, it's genius! lol! Those series will then be followed by:
Game of Thrones: A New Hodor
Game of Thrones: The Unsullied Strike Back
Game of Thrones: Attack of the Free Folk
Game of Thrones: Revenge of the Lannisters
Game of Thrones: The Freys Awaken
....and Game of Thrones: The Last White Walker

Don't forget the upcoming, Game of Thrones: Rise of Baratheon

Voodoo Magic

Voodoo Magic

#4835
Quote from: LastSonofKrypton on May 22, 2019, 12:39:57 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on May 22, 2019, 12:28:36 PM

Quote from: LastSonofKrypton on May 22, 2019, 11:20:33 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on May 22, 2019, 11:12:16 AM
Quote from: LastSonofKrypton on May 22, 2019, 10:24:36 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on May 22, 2019, 10:18:50 AM
Quote from: The Old One on May 22, 2019, 04:29:24 AM
Well, I know I for one have no intention of owning GoT on home media anymore, and that's because of the ending.
It's rewatchability is kneecapped for myself.

Agreed sister.

It's hard to burn discs, and stupid. Ebay it is!

They're already advertising Season 8 on Instagram.  The comments... oh my

https://i.imgflip.com/14jfeh.gif

They'll be showing their displeasure the only other way they can. With their wallet. Season 8 media. New show merchandise.

What's interesting for me is I have little interest for the spin-offs now. If it ended well it would be just the opposite. I would have been so pumped, just like I was for the Hobbit trilogy. But now?

Yeah, they'll probably see a hit in their revenue.  I've never cared for the prequels, my interest in the show started to diminish right around season 6 and 7, because that's where the quality of the writing really started to slump.  But I wanted to watch it to at least see characters finish their arcs, that has been my biggest problem with season 8, as bad as season 6 and 7 might have been, they didn't completely shit all over characters like season 8 (except for Littlefinger)

Yeah, I believe most of us saw the diminishing of writing quality like you did, but I personally always found it manageable as a fan, and there were still some great episodes among them in my opinion. But you're right, there was no shitting on the main character arcs, so it still had my loyalty.

If there's any silver-lining, I do believe the disaster that is Season 8 will be a textbook example tought in screen writing classes on what not to do, for years to come.

I hope so.  The general public at large tend not to care about these things.  As long as they get the big spectacles, they can look over the mistakes and wrong turns in writing as long as they get the 'fan service' and I think a lot of future productions will gravitate towards this trend.  I know I've joked about the Burlington Bar and other reaction channels, but a lot of them are really all about that OMG moment, instead of following a good story. 

Spoiler
This was a criticism I had of Endgame.  Not trying to start a discussion on here btw but I felt some of the flaws were overlooked because that final battle was so epic and amazing to watch. 

Jon is a perfect example,  Brought back to life the following season for nothing.  King in the North for nothing.  Perhaps the worst one, revealing he is a Targaeryan for nothing more than letting him ride a dragon.  It literally went nowhere else.

Dany's flip was supposed to be a Red Wedding moment, the difference being that the Red Wedding was slowly built up, subtle hints and a culmination as the consequences of Robb's choices.  Dany wasn't. characters talking about the mad king, and Dany killing her enemies after offering them the chance to submit are not enough.  They sacrificed logic for a 'gotcha' moment, and it really shows.  This season was all spectacle, no story.  Nobody has criticised the effects or the prodcution value, all the criticism is levelled towards the writing.

Spectacle is fine, fan service is fine, mindless entertainment is fine.  The problem is, Game of Thrones was never about any of this in the beginning.
It was a deep character study set in a fantasy world.
[close]

That's why I am so encouraged over all the complaints of destroyed character arcs among critics and fans alike when GoT episode 5 hit. The fact the majority recognized these problems meant that, as I previously said somewhere on this thread, I have hope for society again. :)

Destroying character arcs is something Endgame didn't do, so even though it stumbled across the finish line in narrative and logic, it gets a pass from me much like Return of the Jedi. But if Endgame was the best there was in the MCU, I and many probably wouldn't have invested in the journey to begin with.

As a whole, I am discouraged with the decline in quality screenwriting of current cinema, but I've come to realize the tremendous uptick in quality in television series screenwriting (GoT S8 excluded), probably has something to do with it. A steady and reliable regular income and the larger scope of the format is probably attracting the best writers.

Biomechanoid

Biomechanoid

#4836
Quote from: LastSonofKrypton on May 22, 2019, 01:07:15 PM
Quote from: Biomechanoid on May 22, 2019, 01:01:11 PM
Nah, nah, man, it's genius! lol! Those series will then be followed by:
Game of Thrones: A New Hodor
Game of Thrones: The Unsullied Strike Back
Game of Thrones: Attack of the Free Folk
Game of Thrones: Revenge of the Lannisters
Game of Thrones: The Freys Awaken
....and Game of Thrones: The Last White Walker

Don't forget the upcoming, Game of Thrones: Rise of Baratheon

Good one, Krypton! Yes, the perfect saga collection. LOL!

LastSonofKrypton

Quote from: Voodoo Magic on May 22, 2019, 01:08:44 PM
Quote from: LastSonofKrypton on May 22, 2019, 12:39:57 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on May 22, 2019, 12:28:36 PM

Quote from: LastSonofKrypton on May 22, 2019, 11:20:33 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on May 22, 2019, 11:12:16 AM
Quote from: LastSonofKrypton on May 22, 2019, 10:24:36 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on May 22, 2019, 10:18:50 AM
Quote from: The Old One on May 22, 2019, 04:29:24 AM
Well, I know I for one have no intention of owning GoT on home media anymore, and that's because of the ending.
It's rewatchability is kneecapped for myself.

Agreed sister.

It's hard to burn discs, and stupid. Ebay it is!

They're already advertising Season 8 on Instagram.  The comments... oh my

https://i.imgflip.com/14jfeh.gif

They'll be showing their displeasure the only other way they can. With their wallet. Season 8 media. New show merchandise.

What's interesting for me is I have little interest for the spin-offs now. If it ended well it would be just the opposite. I would have been so pumped, just like I was for the Hobbit trilogy. But now?

Yeah, they'll probably see a hit in their revenue.  I've never cared for the prequels, my interest in the show started to diminish right around season 6 and 7, because that's where the quality of the writing really started to slump.  But I wanted to watch it to at least see characters finish their arcs, that has been my biggest problem with season 8, as bad as season 6 and 7 might have been, they didn't completely shit all over characters like season 8 (except for Littlefinger)

Yeah, I believe most of us saw the diminishing of writing quality like you did, but I personally always found it manageable as a fan, and there were still some great episodes among them in my opinion. But you're right, there was no shitting on the main character arcs, so it still had my loyalty.

If there's any silver-lining, I do believe the disaster that is Season 8 will be a textbook example tought in screen writing classes on what not to do, for years to come.

I hope so.  The general public at large tend not to care about these things.  As long as they get the big spectacles, they can look over the mistakes and wrong turns in writing as long as they get the 'fan service' and I think a lot of future productions will gravitate towards this trend.  I know I've joked about the Burlington Bar and other reaction channels, but a lot of them are really all about that OMG moment, instead of following a good story. 

Spoiler
This was a criticism I had of Endgame.  Not trying to start a discussion on here btw but I felt some of the flaws were overlooked because that final battle was so epic and amazing to watch. 

Jon is a perfect example,  Brought back to life the following season for nothing.  King in the North for nothing.  Perhaps the worst one, revealing he is a Targaeryan for nothing more than letting him ride a dragon.  It literally went nowhere else.

Dany's flip was supposed to be a Red Wedding moment, the difference being that the Red Wedding was slowly built up, subtle hints and a culmination as the consequences of Robb's choices.  Dany wasn't. characters talking about the mad king, and Dany killing her enemies after offering them the chance to submit are not enough.  They sacrificed logic for a 'gotcha' moment, and it really shows.  This season was all spectacle, no story.  Nobody has criticised the effects or the prodcution value, all the criticism is levelled towards the writing.

Spectacle is fine, fan service is fine, mindless entertainment is fine.  The problem is, Game of Thrones was never about any of this in the beginning.
It was a deep character study set in a fantasy world.
[close]

That's why I am so encouraged over all the complaints of destroyed character arcs among critics and fans alike when GoT episode 5 hit. The fact the majority recognized these problems meant that, as I previously said somewhere on this thread, I have hope for society again. :)

Destroying character arcs is something Endgame didn't do, so even though it stumbled across the finish line in narrative and logic, it gets a pass from me much like Return of the Jedi. But if Endgame was the best there was in the MCU, I and many probably wouldn't have invested in the journey to begin with.

As a whole, I am discouraged with the decline in quality screenwriting of current cinema, but I've come to realize the tremendous uptick in quality in television series screenwriting (GoT S8 excluded), probably has something to do with it. A steady and reliable regular income and the larger scope of the format is probably attracting the best writers.

Absolutely.  Endgame had issues, but nothing as egregious as GoT.  But we can have this discussion elsewhere  :)  It's because the writing of GoT was of such high quality that seasons 6, 7 and especially season 8 hurt so much.  What was promised simply wasn't delivered, and to settle for anything less is a little dishonest.  If fans just keep quiet about these things, studios will keep doing it.  If D&D wanted out to focus on other projects, then they should have handed over the reins to somebody else.  HBO should have foreseen this, they are just as culpable for this, either that or they simply don't care, because the vast general audience will give it a pass so long as the boom and the bang and the OMG moments keep coming. 

I've read a lot of people complaining that fans are 'entitled' as if the show owes them something.  It does.  It owes them a true, well written, well produced ending, not a rushed, barely thought out finale where things just happen to move the show along.  Even the typical entertainment shills on Youtube are struggling to defend this horror show of a season, though a few will try. 

This isn't me being disappointed by things not playing out the way I wanted, this is disappointment how things played out.  I'm fine with some of the endings for characters, but I hate the final third of the journey for most of them.

Jamie, Tyrion, Dany, Jon, Varys, Littlefinger, Cersei were either wasted, or completely butchered, to the point where their characters were unrecognisable, and that is not acceptable.

Voodoo Magic

Voodoo Magic

#4838
^^^
Although I'm not as personally as hard on seasons 6 & 7, as a watcher from day one I do feel your pain.

And no one deserved the travesty that was Season 8. Not GRRM. Not the critics. Not the fans. Not the actors. Not the property itself, which like Star Wars, is now permanently damaged.

Crazy thought. Maybe one day GRRM comes out with his books and they retcon the last season on HBO in 5-7 years? The actors would be visibly older, some suspension of disbelief would be required, but older so could the book events be. (Yoda voice)

Wouldn't that be something.

Biomechanoid

Biomechanoid

#4839
Krypton: "HBO should have foreseen this, they are just as culpable for this"

That's where the buck stops. Undoubtedly they read the scripts for season 8 before hand, they knew at what caliber the series had showcased so far. Generally outlines, scriptments, treatments, or whatever are presented to the studio heads to show the story's direction before writing the final drafts. And yet, HBO greenlit it anyway. I'd be curious if they saw a significant amount of cancelled HBO subscriptions.

LastSonofKrypton

Quote from: Voodoo Magic on May 22, 2019, 01:36:18 PM
^^^
Although I'm not as personally as hard on seasons 6 & 7, as a watcher from day one I do feel your pain.

And no one deserved the travesty that was Season 8. Not GRRM. Not the critics. Not the fans. Not the actors. Not the property itself, which like Star Wars, is now permanently damaged.

Crazy thought. Maybe one day GRRM comes out with his books and they retcon the last season on HBO in 5-7 years? The actors would be visibly older, some suspension of disbelief would be required, but older so could the book events be. (Yoda voice)

Wouldn't that be something.

I gave up on George a long time ago, it's why I stopped after book one.  What is it, eight years since the last book, and that took him six years to write.  I can't bring myself to get emotionally invested in the books knowing that they might not be finished, even more so now after the car fire of season 8 of the show. 

HBO shot themselves in the foot, knowing that eventually the show would overtake the books, and not planning for it at all.  They should have stepped in, and insisted on stretching the season's out as much as possible following George's bullet points.  When D&D admitted they wanted to wrap it up in such a short time, they should have brought in other writers.  HBO are just as responsible for this as D&D

Voodoo Magic

Voodoo Magic

#4841
All fair points.

Hmm. Well... The Dark Crystal: Age of Resistance looks interesting! ;D

Local Trouble

Local Trouble

#4842
Spoiler
I'm hoping Bran can find Drogon and warg into him.  It'll be like the blue ending of ME3.
[close]

Kimarhi

Kimarhi

#4843
Last two seasons felt super rushed.  Should've went the full ten episodes each season, and that way the character actions and reactions would feel more believable.

As soon as it was hinted that they were going to do to Dany what they did to her I knew the show would be killed.

There were some cool shots in the last two episodes.


Zombie Clegane standing at the top of the spiral staircase with the sunlight behing him with his shirt off ready for battle was pure videogame boss fight. 

When Dany is walking to talk her armies and you see Drogon's wings from behind her (which makes it look like hers) that harkens back to Viserys telling her not to unleash the dragon.  Only this time it was her.  Cool throwback moment if it wasn't wasted on her going
Spoiler
supervillian.
[close]

I hope the books finish better.  IF Martin can live to finish them. 

I don't actually think the final season was terrible.  It just was terribly underwhelming.  Despite the budget it became just another show.

Local Trouble

Local Trouble

#4844
The season could have definitely used more episodes.  Hell, they could have devoted an entire episode to Grey Worm trying to figure out what to do with Jon immediately after finding out what he did to Dany, with Tyrion managing one final gambit to buy time for the lords of Westeros to arrive.

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