Theology

[DoomRulz]

You can be greedy for anything though. You're looking at it through the lens of "greedy meaning wanting more money meaning exploit more people". That's how I'm reading it, based on thoughts you've expressed in other threads. A charitable person can also be greedy. You can go good in this world and enjoy the benefits of it, but still be greedy for more. Greed in such a case drives you to do more charity. Is that a bad thing? I don't think so.

[SpreadEagleBeagle]

You can be greedy for anything though. You're looking at it through the lens of "greedy meaning wanting more money meaning exploit more people". That's how I'm reading it, based on thoughts you've expressed in other threads. A charitable person can also be greedy. You can go good in this world and enjoy the benefits of it, but still be greedy for more. Greed in such a case drives you to do more charity. Is that a bad thing? I don't think so.

Why even call it greed then? Just to piss of Christians/Muslims/Jews?

[DoomRulz]

Yes, that doesn't change. But to your inclusion of Jews and Muslims, well, LaVey wasn't thinking about them at the time for whatever reason. Not to mention, either group doesn't really care like Christians do. Most of my relatives who are Muslims have never even heard of Satanism.

And it's still greed. Wanting more than you have is greed.

[SpreadEagleBeagle]

Yes, that doesn't change. But to your inclusion of Jews and Muslims, well, LaVey wasn't thinking about them at the time for whatever reason. Not to mention, either group doesn't really care like Christians do. Most of my relatives who are Muslims have never even heard of Satanism.

They have heard about Satan/Shaitan/Iblis?

And it's still greed. Wanting more than you have is greed.

That's trivializing greed, mixing it up with will and drive.

[DoomRulz]

Yes, that doesn't change. But to your inclusion of Jews and Muslims, well, LaVey wasn't thinking about them at the time for whatever reason. Not to mention, either group doesn't really care like Christians do. Most of my relatives who are Muslims have never even heard of Satanism.

They have heard about Satan/Shaitan/Iblis?

Shaitan, yes. But Satanism the religion, not really.

And it's still greed. Wanting more than you have is greed.

That's trivializing greed, mixing it up with will and drive.

Will and drive, aka ambition. What was it that was said about ambition earlier?

"A Satanist knows there is nothing wrong with being greedy, as it only means that he wants more than he already has. Envy means to look with favour upon the possessions of others, and to be desirous of obtaining similar things for oneself. Envy and greed are the motivating forces of ambition - and without ambition, very little of any importance would be accomplished."

[SpreadEagleBeagle]

Yes, that doesn't change. But to your inclusion of Jews and Muslims, well, LaVey wasn't thinking about them at the time for whatever reason. Not to mention, either group doesn't really care like Christians do. Most of my relatives who are Muslims have never even heard of Satanism.

They have heard about Satan/Shaitan/Iblis?

Shaitan, yes. But Satanism the religion, not really.

And it's still greed. Wanting more than you have is greed.

That's trivializing greed, mixing it up with will and drive.

Will and drive, aka ambition. What was it that was said about ambition earlier?

"A Satanist knows there is nothing wrong with being greedy, as it only means that he wants more than he already has. Envy means to look with favour upon the possessions of others, and to be desirous of obtaining similar things for oneself. Envy and greed are the motivating forces of ambition - and without ambition, very little of any importance would be accomplished."

Mixing up the meaning of words again. Ambition and greed are not the same.

[DoomRulz]

No, one leads to another. Greed is what drives ambition.

[SpreadEagleBeagle]

No, one leads to another. Greed is what drives ambition.

I strongly disagree. You can be very greedy but lacking ambition (which is very common); opportunistic and quick to take whatever falls on the floor no matter if you need it or not, just as you can be very ambitious without being greedy; grand ideas and visions reserved for idealistic non-profit projects and such.
 

[DoomRulz]

I think it's purely a matter of perspective. You're approaching it from a very idealistic position. Nothing wrong with that though

[SpreadEagleBeagle]

I think it's purely a matter of perspective. You're approaching it from a very idealistic position. Nothing wrong with that though

Maybe so, but the question still remains what the point is in calling it greed at all when it also means the opposite and everything in between. A word loses its meaning when it can mean anything. I don't get it, unless LaVeyan Satanism is just all about opposing everything Christian, kind of like a belligerent child/teenager trying to fight its parents no matter what it is about. Opposition for the sake if opposition. I find it very juvenile in a way.

[Sabby]

This is why I don't like any ideology that goes THIS IS BAD, DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT, LIKE EVER. Everyone is greedy, everyone is lustful, everyone is proud, some less so then others, but it's there. If you teach them they shouldn't feel that way, you create guilt and self loathing. It's better to teach healthy outlets for these feelings.

[SpreadEagleBeagle]

This is why I don't like any ideology that goes THIS IS BAD, DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT, LIKE EVER. Everyone is greedy, everyone is lustful, everyone is proud, some less so then others, but it's there. If you teach them they shouldn't feel that way, you create guilt and self loathing. It's better to teach healthy outlets for these feelings.

It is a different thing to recognize/accept/acknowledge those feelings and that they are very human and only natural than to justify/embrace/cherish them and try to see them as positive things worth nurturing. I'm referring to gluttony and envy, but most if all greed.

[DoomRulz]

I think it's purely a matter of perspective. You're approaching it from a very idealistic position. Nothing wrong with that though

Maybe so, but the question still remains what the point is in calling it greed at all when it also means the opposite and everything in between. A word loses its meaning when it can mean anything. I don't get it, unless LaVeyan Satanism is just all about opposing everything Christian, kind of like a belligerent child/teenager trying to fight its parents no matter what it is about. Opposition for the sake if opposition. I find it very juvenile in a way.

It's opposition of an ideology that is saying essentially, it's a sin to be human. I find myself in agreement because The Seven Deadly Sins are all about declaring what could be considered "fun" as sinful. For example, lust. What's wrong with being lustful and having premarital sex?

[SpreadEagleBeagle]

I think it's purely a matter of perspective. You're approaching it from a very idealistic position. Nothing wrong with that though

Maybe so, but the question still remains what the point is in calling it greed at all when it also means the opposite and everything in between. A word loses its meaning when it can mean anything. I don't get it, unless LaVeyan Satanism is just all about opposing everything Christian, kind of like a belligerent child/teenager trying to fight its parents no matter what t is about. Opposition for the sake if opposition. I find it very juvenile in a way.

It's opposition of an ideology that is saying essentially, it's a sin to be human. I find myself in agreement because The Seven Deadly Sins are all about declaring what could be considered "fun" as sinful. For example, lust. What's wrong with being lustful and having premarital sex?

I have nothing against sloth or lust as they are pretty benign. But envy and especially greed are not "fun", they're incredibly destructive and causes so much pain, especially in the hands of someone with power.

[DoomRulz]

Well we're going to keep going around in circles at this point because I believe a person can be greedy even for good things in life, but you're going to call it will and drive so...