Theology

Started by Sabby, Sep 01, 2013, 02:51:02 AM

Author
Theology (Read 212,438 times)

Sabby

Sabby

#75
Quote from: Gilfryd on Sep 02, 2013, 12:14:58 AM
Anything structured or organized in the way religion or politics can be is not something I can trust.

Oh wow, I am really tired, because I didn't see that 'not' in there until the 4th read x.x I'm guna crash soon I think. Damn.

BANE

BANE

#76
I can only describe my viewpoint as Ugh.

Aspie

Aspie

#77
Quote from: BANE on Sep 02, 2013, 03:18:40 PM
I can only describe my viewpoint as Ugh.

needz context

BANE

BANE

#78
In the beginning there was only Ugh. Now the circle is complete, and Ugh remains.

Aspie

Aspie

#79
 :laugh:

Sabby


maledoro

maledoro

#81
Quote from: Gilfryd on Sep 02, 2013, 12:14:58 AMAnything structured or organized in the way religion or politics can be is not something I can trust.
Granted, anarchy and chaos are not the same thing, but politics without some sort of structure will lead to total chaos and catastrophe. Yes, even some structures could still lead to bad things, but overall, structure is better than nothing.

As far as religion goes, structure is a two-way street. With organized religion, you have other people in authority telling you what to believe and that you should stay on one path. Without it, you have many other people telling you zillions of conflicting viewpoints of reality, morality, etc.

As I have mentioned it several times before, it's funny when one religion tells you that the Abrahamic God has a certain set of attributes per Scripture, but another sect says that this god has a different set of attributes (also per the same Scripture) and then you have all these other people who reject Scripture and claim the same god has a totally different set of characteristics. What they all have in common is that they all want to convince me that he exists. It's the greatest snipe hunt ever: "Look for this!" "No, look for that!" "It's whatever you think it is!". If they all could keep their stories straight, they would stand a better chance of convincing me.

BANE


AliceApocalypse

AliceApocalypse

#83
 Not an atheist. 

I am not a biblical scholar by any means, so I can't answer a lot of questions on scripture.  I don't consider myself someone who fits within any religious criteria, no particular denomination.  I am no Holy role model by any means.  But I have faith.  Keeping Jesus in my heart is the inner peace that can't be explained during some of the hardest experiences in my life.  I can put them in a spoiler if anyone is interested.

The universe, the galaxy, the Earth, our bodies, nature, science, it's all amazing.  Could all of this be accomplished by intelligent design? It is not so hard for me to believe that there is more the life than just this.  There have just been too many amazing things happen to me for it all to be coincidence.

I don't push religion on anyone, other people's business is their own.  I can't quote scripture, or answer scientific questions, and I don't always walk a straight line.  I only know what faith means to me, based on life experiences.

Bjørn Half-hand

Bjørn Half-hand

#84
Something that bothers and confuses me; if you don't worship (I say worship rather than ''believe'' because I think it's perfectly possible to believe in a god without worshipping him/her simply because they are a powerful god/being) God, then no matter how good a person you are, you're going to Hell to be tormented and burned in fire for all eternity. For Christians that believe in the word of God/bible with absolute certainty and you believe the above about to Hell regardless of how good a person you are if you don't worship God, then how do you feel about friends/work colleagues etc. who don't worship God. If you believe it all as a fact you know is true, therefore you know that your non-Christian friiend/work friend etc is doomed to Hell. How do you process those thoughts, how do you ''square'' that with yourself?
My mother thinks that my going to Hell when I die (as she believes it, as I'm a non-Christian) is on me, it's entirely my fault. Not Gods fault for condeming me, but my own fault. To me, I can not understand this thinking. I really struggle with the concept of a God that is all knowing, all powerful, omnipotent, perfect judgement and perfect love who is apparently all forgiving that has essentially sentenced me to an eternity being tortured for not worshipping him. I just don't get it. Why doesn't he forgive me for not worshipping him? If he is all knowing and made me, why did he make me with such doubts in him? Why did he make me an atheist? He made me knowing full well that I wouldn't worship him, then sentences me to burn forever. Why would a loving God that made me do this? I genuinely don't get it.

I couldn't imagine going to meet friends, seeing them and knowing that some of them are going to this awful place because they didn't take this ''leap of faith'' as it were by worshipping a God that there is no evidence for (or against, we can't prove he exists and we can't prove he doesn't exist). Sure there's the bible but that's not proof of God. We can't prove that it's Gods words. It's a book that has been translated and retranslated and copied and copied and probably barely resembles whatever the original text was.
What about people not born in Christian communities? What about people who aren't Christians but do have their own God/s? Do they go to Hell for picking the wrong answer? Why would an all loving, all forgiving God even tolerate the exsistence of hell let alone send people there?

My mother accuses me of seeing the world in black & white which I think is bizzare. i think it is her as a (hardcore) Christian that is close minded, she can't see beyond God. I have a pretty open mind, whereas she only sees God. God loves me she says, well if he loves me that much why can't he love me for who I am? Why does he plan to send me to hell?

I'm sure some Christians will say ''he'll forgive you if you repent of your sins and accept him and he'll save you from hell''. Essentially they're saying if I apologise for not worshipping him and immediatly start worshipping him then he'll forgive me otherwise tough luck you're going to Hell. Why is it so important that I worship him and love him above all things? Why is his love and protection from Hell conditional on my worshipping him?

Then of course there's all that stuff in the bible about slavery being ok and stoning missbehaving children, the treatment of women etc etc.
Then of course there's the Noah flood story where God kills a horrifying amount of living things for mans sins.
I simply don't believe in God (or any other other god, not just the Christian God) but even if it could be proved to me that God existed I wouldn't worship him. For all the above reasons I just couldn't worship such a God with a clear conscience.

maledoro

maledoro

#85
Quote from: AliceApocalypse on Sep 04, 2013, 07:32:45 PMI am not a biblical scholar by any means, so I can't answer a lot of questions on scripture.  I don't consider myself someone who fits within any religious criteria, no particular denomination.  I am no Holy role model by any means.
Wouldn't be a bad idea to study scripture, considering that is the origin of Jesus. You might want to read what his creators had to say about him.

Quote from: AliceApocalypse on Sep 04, 2013, 07:32:45 PMBut I have faith.  Keeping Jesus in my heart is the inner peace that can't be explained during some of the hardest experiences in my life.  I can put them in a spoiler if anyone is interested.
Biochemistry has a lot to do with it.

Quote from: AliceApocalypse on Sep 04, 2013, 07:32:45 PMThe universe, the galaxy, the Earth, our bodies, nature, science, it's all amazing.  Could all of this be accomplished by intelligent design? It is not so hard for me to believe that there is more the life than just this.
There can be "all this" and more and you still do not have to believe in intelligent design. Could this be accomplished by intelligent design? Peel back the onion layers and it looks less likely. Plus, considering the way things are, if something "intelligent" had designed us and the rest of the universe, either it was careless or it wasn't too intelligent.

Quote from: AliceApocalypse on Sep 04, 2013, 07:32:45 PMThere have just been too many amazing things happen to me for it all to be coincidence.
Maybe it was coincidence and/or it was some unseen force at play. Until one actually sees that it actually was Jesus or God (or anything else for that matter), it's foolish to rush right out and say it was ___. It's prudent to say we don't know.

Quote from: AliceApocalypse on Sep 04, 2013, 07:32:45 PMI don't push religion on anyone, other people's business is their own.  I can't quote scripture, or answer scientific questions, and I don't always walk a straight line.  I only know what faith means to me, based on life experiences.
I rather get to the bottom of things than to comfort myself with a warm and fuzzy.

BANE

BANE

#86
Bjorn, Your saying "why did God make me an atheist?", "why did he make me not believe?" shows me you don't think free will exists. Do you?

QuoteI rather get to the bottom of things than to comfort myself with a warm and fuzzy.
Which I find particularly amusing given your affinity for asses.  :laugh:

Aspie

Aspie

#87
huh, this thread is actually thriving. Weird... :P

Bjørn Half-hand

Bjørn Half-hand

#88
Quote from: BANE on Sep 04, 2013, 08:24:47 PM
Bjorn, Your saying "why did God make me an atheist?", "why did he make me not believe?" shows me you don't think free will exists. Do you?

I do believe in free will. I meant that from a Christians point of view, assuming this God was all knowing and omnipotent, nothing could happen without him knowing it, thereore if he'd created me surely he would have done so with full knowledge of the person I'd become.
I don't believe in God, I absolutely have free will but theoretically, if God was real and had all the powers some Christians believe he has, would any of us truly have free will?

maledoro

maledoro

#89
Quote from: BANE on Sep 04, 2013, 08:24:47 PM
QuoteI rather get to the bottom of things than to comfort myself with a warm and fuzzy.
Which I find particularly amusing given your affinity for asses.  :laugh:
That is an indicator that I can be trusted.
;)

Quote from: Bjørn Half-hand on Sep 04, 2013, 08:29:04 PMI don't believe in God, I absolutely have free will but theoretically, if God was real and had all the powers some Christians believe he has, would any of us truly have free will?
True. It's not exactly free will if God tells you to love him or he'll condemn you to Hell for all eternity; if he gets mad at you for doing something he already knew you were going to do; or if he created you a certain way and faults you for it.

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