Scott: We are going to make another Alien movie

[Scorpio]

When you get down to it we don't know why people do what they do.  What makes someone tick?  All you can say is "I wouldn't do that"

[OpenMaw]

If you want the audience to empathise rather than criticize, you need to show the characters making decisions we understand and believe are intelligent.

This.

I can buy that the Colonial Marines didn't even take Ripley seriously. That much is made readily apparent throughout the first half of the film. The only marine to give her story even the slightest of credence is Hicks.

The thing is though, all of us do things that we know are not safe from time to time. Like hanging out of a four story window to paint an awning without a wire harness or respirator. Yea I totally got it but still, one banana and down I go. People cut corners all of the time, even professionals. The Helmet just isn't that big of an issue when we are talking about human beings.

This isn't some blokes 'avin' a laugh, or some jack asses hanging off a rock face for kicks. These are supposed to be highly intelligent scientists and experienced space explorers looking to, as David said, save humanity.

This notion that we can't anticipate what people would do in chaotic situations is a novel approach to the discussion, but the problem is we aren't talking about a fight or flight scenario or something like that. We're talking about basic, bare bones quarentine here.


Also, even disregarding my statement above about the Colonial Marines not taking Ripley serious, LV-426 and Planet 4 are two completely different scenarios. One is a known quantity with decades of information behind it. The other is literally a totally unknown.

[SM]

When you get down to it we don't know why people do what they do.  What makes someone tick?  All you can say is "I wouldn't do that"

We generally know exactly why people do what they do, because their character is established in a certain way that predicts how they'll react.  Or they just tell us.

[whiterabbit]

These are supposed to be highly intelligent scientists and experienced space explorers looking to, as David said, save humanity.

Highly intelligent my ass. These guys could just be fools with degrees.

Then again, we're going around in star trek logic here. I don't know how many worlds may have been explored by then but perhaps they never once ran into any microbiological/animal threat. Just landscapes and atmosphere. Of course they way I look at it is even though the air is breathable and there isn't any sign of a threat, there could be environmental dangers, such as burns or poisonous substances. So a hazmat suit should have been warranted until the area was secured. But no one wants to watch that kind of a monster movie.

[Baron Von Marlon]

These are supposed to be highly intelligent scientists and experienced space explorers looking to, as David said, save humanity.

Helmet argument aside, I don't get why everyone thinks they're a bunch of scientists.

From wiki:
    Michael Fassbender as Walter, who assists the crew aboard the Covenant.
    Katherine Waterston as Daniels, the chief of terraforming for the Covenant mission, the third in command after Branson and Oram.
    Billy Crudup as Chris Oram, the Covenant's first mate
    Danny McBride as Tennessee Faris, the chief pilot
    Demián Bichir as Carl Lope, the head of the security unit
    Carmen Ejogo as Karine Oram, the Covenant's biologist
    Jussie Smollett as Ricks, the Covenant's navigator
    Callie Hernandez as Upworth, the Covenant's communication officer; she also has paramedic training.
    Amy Seimetz as Maggie Faris, the lander's pilot
    Nathaniel Dean as Hallett, a member of the security unit
    Alexander England as Ankor, a member of the security unit.
    Benjamin Rigby as Ledward, a member of the security unit.
    Uli Latukefu as Cole, a member of the security unit.
    Tess Haubrich as Sarah Rosenthal, a member of the security unit.

That's basically an architect and a biologist.

Imagine a boat on a colony mission and who would be on that boat?
Boat captain, boat staff, workers to set up the colony. And then maybe some scientist to do some research in the new environment.
Even though the scientist might be a smart, educated person, chances are the higher ups will ignore him.
The Terror series sorta comes to mind.

If you look at past events, science wasn't much of a priority. It's usually not until they find someting of value (besides a place to set up a colony), that they'll send out additional people to do whatever. Like they might do in the sequel.

[No Name]

This isn't some blokes 'avin' a laugh, or some jack asses hanging off a rock face for kicks. These are supposed to be highly intelligent scientists and experienced space explorers looking to, as David said, save humanity.

This notion that we can't anticipate what people would do in chaotic situations is a novel approach to the discussion, but the problem is we aren't talking about a fight or flight scenario or something like that. We're talking about basic, bare bones quarentine here.


Also, even disregarding my statement above about the Colonial Marines not taking Ripley serious, LV-426 and Planet 4 are two completely different scenarios. One is a known quantity with decades of information behind it. The other is literally a totally unknown.

Decades of known quantity of information doesn't automatically guarantee one is allowed to disregard, as you put it, "bare bones quarantine measures". The comparison between 426 and P4 only works to the extent that no unknowns begin arising rapidly in the former. Obviously a break in communication for about 3 weeks iirc, is plenty of time to conclude that there is new information to be acquired (especially considering that such information may quite possibly be of a disturbing nature). This is especially so given the overall context of the Alien universe in general (deep space, unknown entities, etc.) If there is no way to access said info, there is absolutely no reason to disregard additional safety precautions especially for an outfit as high-level as the United States military. The fact that the Marines were sent in when a small-scale but specialized investigation unit would just as easily have sufficed, already speaks volumes to this notion.

You're really just contradicting yourself at this point.

[SM]

These are supposed to be highly intelligent scientists and experienced space explorers looking to, as David said, save humanity.

Helmet argument aside, I don't get why everyone thinks they're a bunch of scientists.

From wiki:
    Michael Fassbender as Walter, who assists the crew aboard the Covenant.
    Katherine Waterston as Daniels, the chief of terraforming for the Covenant mission, the third in command after Branson and Oram.
    Billy Crudup as Chris Oram, the Covenant's first mate
    Danny McBride as Tennessee Faris, the chief pilot
    Demián Bichir as Carl Lope, the head of the security unit
    Carmen Ejogo as Karine Oram, the Covenant's biologist
    Jussie Smollett as Ricks, the Covenant's navigator
    Callie Hernandez as Upworth, the Covenant's communication officer; she also has paramedic training.
    Amy Seimetz as Maggie Faris, the lander's pilot
    Nathaniel Dean as Hallett, a member of the security unit
    Alexander England as Ankor, a member of the security unit.
    Benjamin Rigby as Ledward, a member of the security unit.
    Uli Latukefu as Cole, a member of the security unit.
    Tess Haubrich as Sarah Rosenthal, a member of the security unit.

That's basically an architect and a biologist.

Imagine a boat on a colony mission and who would be on that boat?
Boat captain, boat staff, workers to set up the colony. And then maybe some scientist to do some research in the new environment.
Even though the scientist might be a smart, educated person, chances are the higher ups will ignore him.
The Terror series sorta comes to mind.

If you look at past events, science wasn't much of a priority. It's usually not until they find someting of value (besides a place to set up a colony), that they'll send out additional people to do whatever. Like they might do in the sequel.

The Oram's were both in life sciences. But otherwise you're right.

[Paranoid Android]

Decades of known quantity of information doesn't automatically guarantee one is allowed to disregard, as you put it, "bare bones quarantine measures". The comparison between 426 and P4 only works to the extent that no unknowns begin arising rapidly in the former. Obviously a break in communication for about 3 weeks iirc, is plenty of time to conclude that there is new information to be acquired (especially considering that such information may quite possibly be of a disturbing nature). This is especially so given the overall context of the Alien universe in general (deep space, unknown entities, etc.) If there is no way to access said info, there is absolutely no reason to disregard additional safety precautions especially for an outfit as high-level as the United States military. The fact that the Marines were sent in when a small-scale but specialized investigation unit would just as easily have sufficed, already speaks volumes to this notion.

You're really just contradicting yourself at this point.

Your post is based on assumptions that result from knowing the plot, rather than how people act in real life. Decades of known information indeed guarantee the disregard bare bones quarantine measures, which is exactly why they are disregarded right now. You're currently not wearing a hazmat suit because you lived on this planet long enough to know you won't get infected with an alien organism.

The comparison between 426 and P4 indeed only works to the extent that no unknowns begin arising rapidly in the former, which is exactly what the characters know: there was a loss of communication with the colony, and it's "probably just a busted transmitter", which is usually the case in such instances. The only people who know better are Ripley (who is considered a nutjob for it) and Burke (who is responsible for the whole thing, and is trying to keep the whole thing quiet).

The context of the Alien universe, which you mention, is, again, something you know. Not something the characters know. You know there are unknown entities in this universe, but the characters work under the assumption that there aren't any; That only crazy people even talk about that type of stuff. Which is why nobody is buying Ripley's story. The Colonial Marines sent there aren't a high level response - they're a low level response. Which is why they send a bunch of grunts led by a noob officer.

You seem to be working under the assumption that whenever communication is lost with a person or place, people run in there wearing hazmat suits (cause, I mean, it could be due to aliens, right?). Nobody does that. You get hazmat suits when you know for a fact that you're dealing with an alien organism because only then the situation might change, as is the case in the scene from The Mist you previously mentioned.

In comparison, knowingly walking into an alien environment you expect to be vulnerable to all kinds of threats, from microbes your immune system can't handle to literal alien organisms you've never encountered. This much has been common knowledge at the very least since the discovery of America. There's also the meta element at play here, where exposure to an alien environment simply due the air being breathable has been a source for criticism against the previous film, yet they go even further with this stupidity in Covenant.

[Evanus]

 

[The Cruentus]

These are supposed to be highly intelligent scientists and experienced space explorers looking to, as David said, save humanity.

Helmet argument aside, I don't get why everyone thinks they're a bunch of scientists.

Because according to Scott they are scientists, even Oram says as much in one of the promotional vids. Scott even says in the commentary that they were the best in their fields. Personally I don't buy it due to the behavior we see on screen. 

Decades of known quantity of information doesn't automatically guarantee one is allowed to disregard, as you put it, "bare bones quarantine measures". The comparison between 426 and P4 only works to the extent that no unknowns begin arising rapidly in the former. Obviously a break in communication for about 3 weeks iirc, is plenty of time to conclude that there is new information to be acquired (especially considering that such information may quite possibly be of a disturbing nature). This is especially so given the overall context of the Alien universe in general (deep space, unknown entities, etc.) If there is no way to access said info, there is absolutely no reason to disregard additional safety precautions especially for an outfit as high-level as the United States military. The fact that the Marines were sent in when a small-scale but specialized investigation unit would just as easily have sufficed, already speaks volumes to this notion.

You're really just contradicting yourself at this point.

Your post is based on assumptions that result from knowing the plot, rather than how people act in real life. Decades of known information indeed guarantee the disregard bare bones quarantine measures, which is exactly why they are disregarded right now. You're currently not wearing a hazmat suit because you lived on this planet long enough to know you won't get infected with an alien organism.

The comparison between 426 and P4 indeed only works to the extent that no unknowns begin arising rapidly in the former, which is exactly what the characters know: there was a loss of communication with the colony, and it's "probably just a busted transmitter", which is usually the case in such instances. The only people who know better are Ripley (who is considered a nutjob for it) and Burke (who is responsible for the whole thing, and is trying to keep the whole thing quiet).

The context of the Alien universe, which you mention, is, again, something you know. Not something the characters know. You know there are unknown entities in this universe, but the characters work under the assumption that there aren't any; That only crazy people even talk about that type of stuff. Which is why nobody is buying Ripley's story. The Colonial Marines sent there aren't a high level response - they're a low level response. Which is why they send a bunch of grunts led by a noob officer.

You seem to be working under the assumption that whenever communication is lost with a person or place, people run in there wearing hazmat suits (cause, I mean, it could be due to aliens, right?). Nobody does that. You get hazmat suits when you know for a fact that you're dealing with an alien organism because only then the situation might change, as is the case in the scene from The Mist you previously mentioned.

In comparison, knowingly walking into an alien environment you expect to be vulnerable to all kinds of threats, from microbes your immune system can't handle to literal alien organisms you've never encountered. This much has been common knowledge at the very least since the discovery of America. There's also the meta element at play here, where exposure to an alien environment simply due the air being breathable has been a source for criticism against the previous film, yet they go even further with this stupidity in Covenant.

This. The known issue as far as everyone but Ripley and Burke knew was that they simply lost contact with the colony, sure it could have been anything from simple transmitter issue to "possibly" alien plague or some viral pathogen outbreak but they would have no reason to think the latter because the moon was a known and surveryed area and before then, the rock was dead with no indigneous life.
Plus even after the atmosphere processor was up and running, it was still a dead and lifeless rock, it would be unlikely for pathogens to be there because viruses require living organsism to function, and since the planet was completely dead up until the few decades worth of colonization, it would be unlikely something evolved in that time to infect someone.

However, I personally would have given the moon a good recon with every possible scanner first.
But it is understandable they didn't because in real life, I don't think they send the CDC or hazmat teams simply because one loses contact with an established base, especially if they have been given some intel of a physical threat, The Marines were given some intel by Ripley so they knew or at least considered that the threat was physical and not viral.

[Still Collating...]

These are supposed to be highly intelligent scientists and experienced space explorers looking to, as David said, save humanity.

Helmet argument aside, I don't get why everyone thinks they're a bunch of scientists.

Because according to Scott they are scientists, even Oram says as much in one of the promotional vids. Scott even says in the commentary that they were the best in their fields. Personally I don't buy it due to the behavior we see on screen. 

This. I personally don't have a big problem with their behavior, even though I'm longing for smart characters more and more, but Scott can't just insist that they are scientists and the best in their fields when he does not portray the characters like scientists at all. 

[irn]

The fact that the Marines were sent in when a small-scale but specialized investigation unit would just as easily have sufficed, already speaks volumes to this notion.

I recall there being some background info about why the Marines were sent there and it was to do with them being a small group who were en route either to or from R&R, during a campaign elsewhere. It was logistically the best solution to get an armed force there quickest. If I remember rightly it was from that Colonial Marines Technical Manual book. Anyone who has it care to correct or confirm?

[SM]

What would 'small-scale but specialised investigation unit' being investigating?  A downed transmitter?

[FenGiddel]

The fact that the Marines were sent in when a small-scale but specialized investigation unit would just as easily have sufficed, already speaks volumes to this notion.

I recall there being some background info about why the Marines were sent there and it was to do with them being a small group who were en route either to or from R&R, during a campaign elsewhere. It was logistically the best solution to get an armed force there quickest. If I remember rightly it was from that Colonial Marines Technical Manual book. Anyone who has it care to correct or confirm?

I just quoted something on another message and when I got to the primary source, realized my memory was for shite. That being said, inquiring minds might (might) find a copy of CMTM at www.scribd.com. If they searched... 

[SM]

Dialogue in the film suggests they were despatched pretty quickly and were due some time off.