Quote from: Hubbs on Jul 19, 2013, 05:40:33 AM
I don't think I have ignored your post Eagle, I've said I don't think Zimmerman profiled Martin and I don't believe the evidence (taped conversation) shows it either.
I do and many other people do as well. It's racial profiling even if it is seen as completely legit by some people. Zimmerman followed Martin because what he looked like, because he was black. Claiming that Zimmerman would've done the same thing with a white person, or an Asian person, or a Latino person is kind of ridiculous. Martin wasn't dressed like a "thug" either; he wore khakis (pulled all the way up!) and trainers but happened to have his hood up because it was raining outside. But Zimmerman saw him and followed him for a while, and even after talking to the police he decided to intercept nonetheless.
QuoteIt didn't really happen like that though did it, if you read through the taped conversation you see quite clearly it didn't happen like that. At no point did a racist agenda crop up in my opinion.
I'm not talking about some malicious racist agenda concocted by some evil Hitler wannabe rubbing his claw-like hands up in some dark and scary bat infested tower. I'm talking about structural racism, systemic errors and unintentionally accepted prejudices, which privileged (usually white) people seem to have a really hard time to understand. And it's hard to understand because they have never experienced it, or because it is too painful to admit it (for various reasons). Zimmerman acted on that, which doesn't necessarily makes him a racist, but he was acting through accepted prejudice. Same goes for the pushy juror. And same goes for the black guy in your video. Reiteration of structual racism.
QuoteWhat Zimmerman did was legal in his state, this is the reason he was not arrested. The 'STAND YOUR GROUND' law is that reason, perfectly legal in wacky gun lovin America. There is no evidence to say whether he is telling the truth or not, but unfortunately you can't jail someone without hard evidence. Black people are crying out racism because they have been educated to do so every time (Apone has said that himself). The jury tried to put Zimmerman away but couldn't on the fact there is simply no evidence or witnesses to say what happened, AND anything could have happened, its very possible either way. So the result WASN'T from a racist jury.
BS! And btw. that wasn't what Apone said at all. You're misinterpreting him really badly here, and I don't know if you're doing it on purpose or because you just are incapable of getting it. I don't want to put any words in Apone's mouth, so hopefully he'll read your post so he can re-explain what he meant.
Anyways. Whatever you say the system is strongly working in favor for gun owners (due to our insane gun laws), I agree with you on that. The system is also indirectly working against people like Trayvon Martin. Those two made it really hard to convict Zimmerman. The problem is that the prosecution made it so the case was about what Martin should've done differently instead of focusing on what Zimmerman actually did. Martin was seen as guilty from the very beginning and the most forward juror was also the most prejudice one as well. Combine that with Zimmerman's attorney, who catered to those prejudices heavily, and it's just a ridiculous mess of a deep tragedy.
Several other cases in Florida have been reported about the "Stand Your Ground"-law where the gun owner has been black, firing warning shots or firing at an attacking person, and in many of those cases they didn't care about that law much. They just gave the black gun owner the minimum sentence, and wham-blam-thank-you-ma'am, next case! The most famous one is the (black) Florida mom who fired warning shots when her physically abusive husband tried to beat her up. She didn't get any special treatment. She got 20 years instead. In other words, the negligence and laxness when it comes to violence against blacks and black-on-black violence as well is staggering. Just let it continue as long as it doesn't affect the rest of society, and when it does you blame it on the blacks... Not only that, a steady supply of young blacks shipped to the private prisons (funded by taxpayers) is a very lucrative business here in the States.
QuoteThere was a fight it seems, Martin had no injuries on him, Zimmerman did. The prosecution did not do a good job in providing evidence to prove that Zimmerman was guilty beyond reasonable doubt. No proof about him 'stalking' or following Martin, or at least doing so aggressively. Also all the evidence that did exist collaborated Zimmerman's version of events. End of the day the evidence is not enough to jail him for half his life as the facts are unknown, some is a bit dubious of course but that doesn't equal a complete guilty verdict.
It's only dubious if you share the mindset of juror B37, Zimmerman and FOX news and are incapable of grasping that our culture and society is a living entity built and structured on, and always affected by, its past.
The only thing we had was Zimmerman's word because Martin was not there to tell them his version, because he's dead - shot by Zimmerman.
QuoteI still think black folk are really skimming over what happened and just jumping the gun (no pun intended). A non black fella 'profiles' a young black kid and kills him, the end = extreme racism.
If the media bothered to report the majority of the peaceful protests and what the speakers were, and still are, saying, you would know that the people marching the streets are not calling Zimmerman a racist. They're not talking about KKK extreme racism either. They are talking about how the Zimmerman case illustrates that the struggle isn't over and that our system is still racist. The racism isn't in the open anymore, because that part we have dealt with (...kind of), it's the hidden racism, the embedded racism, structural racism that is the cause to this. The protests are about how things have to change. Make ourselves heard so that authorities etc. will listen and show some action. That is what it is about.
Most of the black speakers (who never are invited to speak in the mainstream media) kind of see Zimmerman and juror B37 as victims as well, victims of the same structural racism for letting their prejudice dictate their decisions and actions. The targets for Florida law, and U.S. law, for allowing this to happen.
QuoteMost people who are up in arms over this also tend to be extreme liberals who just like to fuel the fires, we get so much of that here in the UK. You're all just lucky you don't have to put up with the EU rubbish we have, ruled by another country (city even!) pretty much.
I have never been to the UK (have been to Sweden, Spain, Germany and the Netherlands), so I'm not gonna make any assumptions.
Even so, If your liberals are anything like the ones in other countries it doesn't make me surprised that they defend minorities over there as well, as liberals are progressive and wants to highlight what has to be changed and improved, making sure that it is available not only for the privileged but for everyone, whereas conservatives and neo-conservatives just want to preserve everything, especially things that benefit the privileged. Anything questioning the status quo will be fought tooth and nail, and the sometimes very long passage for change to happen will be demonized (by distorting and high-lighting only the dysfunctional parts of change, as if change would happen over night) as well as fighting it, resulting in the hampering change. "If the system works for privileged white people it should be working for everyone" ...we don't want to change that do we?
But I do agree with you that the EU seems a little off. Seems like it is causing a lot of problems and makes it hard for the different countries to govern themselves effectively. Also seems like countries like Germany are benefiting on the poorer/smaller countries and economies, yet always comes out perceived as the hero and good guy.
QuoteAs far as I can see Zimmerman may end up in jail at the end simply because of all the fuss...which is wrong.
No, I strongly doubt he will end up in jail. This case is over in that sense, but it will always be remembered and it will be used to make sure that this won't happen again. No matter what the right-wing says this IS a Civil Rights case.
QuoteIs it me or does that sounds really wrong? kinda like making the problem worse or encouraging young blacks to resent white people and cause trouble. Like I said here in the UK being black or ethnic is a BIG plus, you can't do any wrong.
Once again I really, really don't think that is what Apone meant.
Not gonna put any words in Apone's mouth, but I don't believe you that being black or of another ethnicity than white is a BIG plus, not even a small plus. If you're referring to government aid and special social programs, you're once again showing that you don't get it it, that you're perceiving the world from white privilege without ever questioning that privilege. The reason non-white people, and mainly immigrants and poor people, is because they are not privileged. The system is an upward battle. They don't have the same starting conditions as the privileged (usually white). In order to give them some footing and equal opportunity the government needs to help out because that's the only band-aid way to even out the structurally faulty system of our societies. I know that there are a lot of people who abuse this, but it is helping out more people than being abused. Of course the best way would be to reform society to truly fit everyone, but conservatives (no matter the country) don't want drastic change. So until then these band-aids are all that we have to cover up infected huge gaping wounds. Being white (and especially a male, above working-class) and complaining about this, portraying oneself as the "truly" discriminated victim because of this, just makes one look childish and incapable seeing things from another perspective beyond the white privileged one, which one takes for granted.
