An ongoing problem I have with the Predators in the comics & novels.

Started by Bishop2, Jan 20, 2008, 08:27:37 PM

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An ongoing problem I have with the Predators in the comics & novels. (Read 5,532 times)

Bishop2

So many of these "Expanded Universe" materials seem to completely ignore one of the most simple rules laid down in the films - the Predators only attack someone who is either armed or the aggressor towards them.

Instead we frequently get Predators stalking and killing unarmed fleshy little humans who make no attempts at combat.  There are so few Predator films and so few rules laid down in them, I'm amazed at how frequently they get this core conceit completely wrong.

In the original Aliens vs. Predator story and the novelization AVP: Prey, a group of Predators descends on the Sheldon family farm.  After killing the armed father the dog who runs at them, they proceed to chase down the fleeing, crying and unarmed mother and gut her.  Then, as the little boy tries to escape on a hover bike, they continue to take aim at him and fire on him. 

MAYBE you could explain this away by saying they were hungry for vengeance after what happened to their ship in the valley, and didn't really CARE anymore.  Maybe.  But what about other, more standard hunts in other stories?

The novel Predator: Big Game features one of the most egregious and hilarious versions of this breaking down.  A Predator kills an old doctor and sheep rancher who are just sitting and talking in the yard, plus he kills all of the sheep inside the tiny pen, too.  And this is just one Predator on a standard hunt.  WTF?

Now I'm reading Predator: Flesh & Blood, and I was really hoping the NEW novel series would have avoided this stupidity.  But no, and I"m getting fed up.  As early as Chapter 6, the short and rather pathetic dude Ortega is chased down, shot at and run through for the sheer hell of it.  Again, completely unarmed and with no aggression made towards the Predators.

Why can't they just watch the movies and figure out the very simple, very short list of rules the creatures and the universe follow?  This is so obvious, and I'm so baffled.

Eldritch_DM

Quote from: Bishop2 on Jan 20, 2008, 08:27:37 PM
So many of these "Expanded Universe" materials seem to completely ignore one of the most simple rules laid down in the films - the Predators only attack someone who is either armed or the aggressor towards them.

Instead we frequently get Predators stalking and killing unarmed fleshy little humans who make no attempts at combat.  There are so few Predator films and so few rules laid down in them, I'm amazed at how frequently they get this core conceit completely wrong.

In the original Aliens vs. Predator story and the novelization AVP: Prey, a group of Predators descends on the Sheldon family farm.  After killing the armed father the dog who runs at them, they proceed to chase down the fleeing, crying and unarmed mother and gut her.  Then, as the little boy tries to escape on a hover bike, they continue to take aim at him and fire on him. 

MAYBE you could explain this away by saying they were hungry for vengeance after what happened to their ship in the valley, and didn't really CARE anymore.  Maybe.  But what about other, more standard hunts in other stories?

The novel Predator: Big Game features one of the most egregious and hilarious versions of this breaking down.  A Predator kills an old doctor and sheep rancher who are just sitting and talking in the yard, plus he kills all of the sheep inside the tiny pen, too.  And this is just one Predator on a standard hunt.  WTF?

Now I'm reading Predator: Flesh & Blood, and I was really hoping the NEW novel series would have avoided this stupidity.  But no, and I"m getting fed up.  As early as Chapter 6, the short and rather pathetic dude Ortega is chased down, shot at and run through for the sheer hell of it.  Again, completely unarmed and with no aggression made towards the Predators.

Why can't they just watch the movies and figure out the very simple, very short list of rules the creatures and the universe follow?  This is so obvious, and I'm so baffled.

The Preds in Prey were on thier first hunt too and the leader of the small pack that killed the Sheldon family (excluding the kid) didn't like how things were run by Dechande to begin with and challenged him like you read so he thought that they should just hunt all the humans down and naturally the others just followed along even knowning that it was wrong. Dechande told them that humans were there and that they were NOT to be harmed but the ignorant one went after them anyhow after their ship was destroyed and Dechande was injured and knocked unconscious.
As for the other two books, I'm not sure about but I've heard many people refer to them as the Hish, kinda like Bad bloods. They kill for the sake of killing. But I was told that the Hish is just another name for a second race of Preds like Yautja. But weither this is true or not, I don't know. I hope I was able to help.

Corporal Hicks

Yes, as pointed out the Predators in Prey were on their first hunt and being led by someone who didn't like playing by the rules. Flesh and Blood, that was just an error on the part of the authors.

Firetnk

 Yes the books do brake the rules like Fresh and blood but I still like that book. ;D

Kimarhi

AvP breaks the rules.  Preds kill the drilling team at the top level at razorback station.  They would've killed Sebastian and Lex if the Aliens hadn't come in.

They attempt to kill Quinn BEFORE he's armed when they throw the spear through the door and slice his arm open.

And I never really bought into the don't kill if unarmed thing anyways.  What exactly is fair about a 7' tall bodybuilder beating up on a 6' tall bodybuilder with a pair of wristblades?

They hunt what they consider sporting.  The honor thing comes from people's flawed interpretations of the movie and the comics.

To me it boils down rather simply.  Different preds are like different people.  Each follows it's own damn rules.

SiL

Does no-one remember the broken tusk Pred layin' the smackdown when he found out about the skulls of the people? Or did that not happen in Perry's novel (damned if I can read through all of that  ... thing).

Kimarhi

Happened in both the comic and the novel.

DarthSidious

The only book that I think destroys the Predator tradition is "Forever Midnight."   In this novel, the author  states Predators steal technology and enslaves other races.  They also mind control humans, how lame is that?

Corporal Hicks

About as lame as they have human ideals.

Bishop2

Quote from: Kimarhi on Jan 21, 2008, 04:21:09 AM
AvP breaks the rules.  Preds kill the drilling team at the top level at razorback station.  They would've killed Sebastian and Lex if the Aliens hadn't come in.

The drilling team that's all armed with pistols. And you can't really know they would've killed Sebastian and Lex. The only questionable moment is when they kill the one guy who DID have a gun, but loses it when he slides all the way down the ice tunnel and is lying there probably broken into pieces anyway.

Quote from: Kimarhi on Jan 21, 2008, 04:21:09 AM

And I never really bought into the don't kill if unarmed thing anyways.  What exactly is fair about a 7' tall bodybuilder beating up on a 6' tall bodybuilder with a pair of wristblades?


It's not really fair to use your plasma cannon against a machine gun either. But that's how they roll.  Bottom line is that it doesn't matter if you bought into it, it's still part of the cannon of the films, a rule applied in both Predator movies.  Of course Wolf did break the rule in AVP:R in order to keep that deputy quiet.

Quote from: DarthSidious on Jan 22, 2008, 01:57:02 PM
The only book that I think destroys the Predator tradition is "Forever Midnight."   In this novel, the author  states Predators steal technology and enslaves other races.  They also mind control humans, how lame is that?

Mind control is pretty awful. I don't mind the rest as much, but yeah, mind control? Jesus.  No thanks. Predators do not have psychic powers. At least i'd prefer to think not.

Kimarhi

Quote from: Bishop2 on Jan 22, 2008, 11:37:22 PM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Jan 21, 2008, 04:21:09 AM
AvP breaks the rules.  Preds kill the drilling team at the top level at razorback station.  They would've killed Sebastian and Lex if the Aliens hadn't come in.

The drilling team that's all armed with pistols. And you can't really know they would've killed Sebastian and Lex. The only questionable moment is when they kill the one guy who DID have a gun, but loses it when he slides all the way down the ice tunnel and is lying there probably broken into pieces anyway.

Quote from: Kimarhi on Jan 21, 2008, 04:21:09 AM

And I never really bought into the don't kill if unarmed thing anyways.  What exactly is fair about a 7' tall bodybuilder beating up on a 6' tall bodybuilder with a pair of wristblades?


It's not really fair to use your plasma cannon against a machine gun either. But that's how they roll.  Bottom line is that it doesn't matter if you bought into it, it's still part of the cannon of the films, a rule applied in both Predator movies.  Of course Wolf did break the rule in AVP:R in order to keep that deputy quiet.

Quote from: DarthSidious on Jan 22, 2008, 01:57:02 PM
The only book that I think destroys the Predator tradition is "Forever Midnight."   In this novel, the author  states Predators steal technology and enslaves other races.  They also mind control humans, how lame is that?

Mind control is pretty awful. I don't mind the rest as much, but yeah, mind control? Jesus.  No thanks. Predators do not have psychic powers. At least i'd prefer to think not.

The drilling team is never shown to be armed.  Your confusing them with the rest of Verheiden's team left on the surface.  And yes they do attempt to kill quinn as soon as he discovers the preds actions while he is unarmed.  Hence the spear through the door and the cutting of his arm. 

Your second point only brings up the point on how most of us initially feel about the pred.  They HAVE no honor.  They are hunters.  Intergalactic rednecks that get thrills from hunting creatures less physically and technologically advanced than they are.

The only reason they leave people alive is because there is NO thrill in killing them.

DarthSidious

Quote from: Bishop2 on Jan 22, 2008, 11:37:22 PM
Mind control is pretty awful. I don't mind the rest as much, but yeah, mind control? Jesus.  No thanks. Predators do not have psychic powers. At least i'd prefer to think not.

They didn't use psychic powers, but technology.  They sent out these flyer drones that were as small as a bug and then they would sting the humans at the colony and they were then be under the control of the predators.  The Predator leader then allowed Predator babies to control the humans and the babies used the controlled humans to kill the other humans.  It was like an arcade game for the baby preds..... very stupid and lame.... 

Firetnk

Did anyone like Fresh and blood? ??? I thought it was amazing. Now I need to read Aliens DNA WAR. ;D

Corporal Hicks


Firetnk

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 23, 2008, 07:46:02 AM
F&B was great. I loved it to bits. I'll read it again soon.

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/literature.php?section=reviewnovelpfb

Yap I agree with your review except I would probably give it a 5 though. I do understand why you gave it a 4.7 because of the ending but I just loved this book so much. My only complaints was that Broadhurst died which I was not surprised because my favorite characters always die. Also like your review you wanted more. The funny thing is I almost did not buy this book because I was not interested in the story. But man was I wrong. I hope Aliens DNA war is good as you said it was, but first I have to finish The Jungle by Upton Sinclair.  ;D

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