"Negative capability" - David-related, and Alien 3 related?

Started by Salt The Fries, May 31, 2017, 07:21:17 AM

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"Negative capability" - David-related, and Alien 3 related? (Read 2,609 times)

Salt The Fries

Salt The Fries

So there's this Keats-Shelley House, a museum devoted to John Keats and Percy Shelley, which took notice of Covenant and in one tweet they dropped an interesting notion, called "negative capability":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_capability

QuoteNegative capability was a phrase first used by Romantic poet John Keats in 1817 to characterise the capacity of the greatest writers (particularly Shakespeare) to pursue a vision of artistic beauty even when it leads them into intellectual confusion and uncertainty, as opposed to a preference for philosophical certainty over artistic beauty. The term has been used by poets and philosophers to describe the ability of the individual to perceive, think, and operate beyond any presupposition of a predetermined capacity of the human being.[


QuoteRoberto Unger appropriated Keats' term in order to explain resistance to rigid social divisions and hierarchies. For Unger, negative capability is the "denial of whatever in our contexts delivers us over to a fixed scheme of division and hierarchy and to an enforced choice between routine and rebellion." It is thus through negative capability that we can further empower ourselves against social and institutional constraints, and loosen the bonds that entrap us in a certain social station


I'm still collating but it's a very fascinating thread when thinking about David.

And they mentioned Alien 3 cited it too. But I'm not sure what they meant.

This is the tweet in question:

https://twitter.com/Keats_Shelley/status/869810729645469697


whiterabbit

"In a scene from Ridley Scott's 2017 film Alien: Covenant, the film's android character David quotes the final four lines of "Ozymandias" but, significantly for the plot, misattributes the poem to Byron."

David is broken, I take it.

Scorpio

Quote from: Salt The Fries on May 31, 2017, 07:21:17 AM


And they mentioned Alien 3 cited it too. But I'm not sure what they meant.




banecat

not sure about anyone else, and i know he's a complete psychopath, but i felt sad when he realized he had made a mistake. he is clearly capable of bugs, or is overdue some maintenance

The_Foxcatcher

Quote from: Salt The Fries on May 31, 2017, 07:21:17 AM
So there's this Keats-Shelley House, a museum devoted to John Keats and Percy Shelley, which took notice of Covenant and in one tweet they dropped an interesting notion, called "negative capability":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_capability

QuoteNegative capability was a phrase first used by Romantic poet John Keats in 1817 to characterise the capacity of the greatest writers (particularly Shakespeare) to pursue a vision of artistic beauty even when it leads them into intellectual confusion and uncertainty, as opposed to a preference for philosophical certainty over artistic beauty. The term has been used by poets and philosophers to describe the ability of the individual to perceive, think, and operate beyond any presupposition of a predetermined capacity of the human being.[


QuoteRoberto Unger appropriated Keats' term in order to explain resistance to rigid social divisions and hierarchies. For Unger, negative capability is the "denial of whatever in our contexts delivers us over to a fixed scheme of division and hierarchy and to an enforced choice between routine and rebellion." It is thus through negative capability that we can further empower ourselves against social and institutional constraints, and loosen the bonds that entrap us in a certain social station


I'm still collating but it's a very fascinating thread when thinking about David.

And they mentioned Alien 3 cited it too. But I'm not sure what they meant.

This is the tweet in question:

https://twitter.com/Keats_Shelley/status/869810729645469697

Just an off-topic, does anyone know why did David use/say '36 hours' instead of simply adding a day to his count of number of days when he was asked by Vickers about the time passed in their journey?



Protozoid

Protozoid

#6
Yeah, when you get right down to it, it does seem as though Scott have this trait, and having it makes you more likely to appreciate his work. I certainly noticed that the people who spent years attacking Prometheus on allegedly logical grounds tended to lack this trait. There was no fluidity of ideas and an actual disdain for people who read between the lines. Prometheus was a masterpiece of storytelling through implication, but some people want everything to be overt and explicit or they become angry. In fact, early drafts had David's POV shots showing that David and the Engineers see their architecture and technology as beautiful and light, not dark and dank. Scott was hinting that humans generally suffer from a lack of negative capability, with the exception of true visionaries like Shaw and maybe Westland. Most people are like Milburn and Fifield, which is why they hate those characters being depicted as fools.

Aceburster

So when I go to Burger King and ask for a burger and I get an origami swan made out of a napkin instead I should just shut up and eat it to fight dem social constructs and appreciate negative capability.

People are now reaching into other dimensions to justify bad writing.

Protozoid

Quote from: Aceburster on May 31, 2017, 07:54:43 PM
So when I go to Burger King and ask for a burger and I get an origami swan made out of a napkin instead I should just shut up and eat it to fight dem social constructs and appreciate negative capability.

People are now reaching into other dimensions to justify bad writing.
You should accept the origami swan. Neither the burger nor the swan are edible, but the swan is beautiful and took skill to create.

Aceburster

Quote from: Protozoid on May 31, 2017, 08:07:39 PM
Quote from: Aceburster on May 31, 2017, 07:54:43 PM
So when I go to Burger King and ask for a burger and I get an origami swan made out of a napkin instead I should just shut up and eat it to fight dem social constructs and appreciate negative capability.

People are now reaching into other dimensions to justify bad writing.
You should accept the origami swan. Neither the burger nor the swan are edible, but the swan is beautiful and took skill to create.

Ya got me there  :laugh:

banecat

i would argue that a whopper looks rather delicious sometimes, not too much skill required though

Hemi

Quote from: Protozoid on May 31, 2017, 08:07:39 PM
Quote from: Aceburster on May 31, 2017, 07:54:43 PM
So when I go to Burger King and ask for a burger and I get an origami swan made out of a napkin instead I should just shut up and eat it to fight dem social constructs and appreciate negative capability.

People are now reaching into other dimensions to justify bad writing.
You should accept the origami swan. Neither the burger nor the swan are edible, but the swan is beautiful and took skill to create.

Yeah.... Ok. Hungry since 2012 though..

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