John Carpenter's The Thing vs. Alien or Predator

[Xenomrph]

Replicate CARBON/PROTEIN organisms from Earth perfectly.

Organism from other worlds, maybe.... maybe not.

I'm not sure how much that matters, though - we know the Thing is from another planet as well, so why wouldn't it be able to mimic organisms from other worlds? I mean, that's the Thing's entire gimmick.
Sure we don't have actual evidence in the movie that it could, say, replicate silicon-based lifeforms or whatever, but we also don't have evidence that it can't. It can seemingly replicate synthetic materials (the clothes the people wore, etc). I guess I'm just willing to give it the benefit of the doubt, since "mimicking organisms" is its whole gimmick.

[Gates]

However, we know it can replicate living organisms perfectly. If we don't know of limitations when replicating living organisms, why should we assign some to it?

Because I'm god in my 'fantastically magic alterverse' and I say they do...

Hey, I love AvP and shit, but I'm just being honest here. We don't have to fellate Aliens and Predators just because this is an AvP forum, and condemn all other grudge-match contenders.

Where's your loyalty man..? I'm rallying the troops here..!

P.S. Loves 'fellate'...

[Xenomrph]

This thread isn't about "loyalty", it's just a discussion. It's not like anyone who doesn't support AvP will get rounded off and sent to the concentration camps or something.

[Predator Collector]

I mainly agree with Xenomrph.

I started this thread merely for discussion and I thought that it would be interesting to discuss. I may not agree 100% with EVERY single post by forum members, but again, this is merely for discussion.

I strongly advise that you watch the movie "John Carpenter's The Thing" if you have never seen the movie, or have not seen the movie in a long time before making your decision. You may choose whoever you want to agree with on this thread, but choose wisely.

[Xhan]

Replicate CARBON/PROTEIN organisms from Earth perfectly.

Organism from other worlds, maybe.... maybe not.

I'm not sure how much that matters, though - we know the Thing is from another planet as well, so why wouldn't it be able to mimic organisms from other worlds? I mean, that's the Thing's entire gimmick.
Sure we don't have actual evidence in the movie that it could, say, replicate silicon-based lifeforms or whatever, but we also don't have evidence that it can't. It can seemingly replicate synthetic materials (the clothes the people wore, etc). I guess I'm just willing to give it the benefit of the doubt, since "mimicking organisms" is its whole gimmick.

It matters a great deal.

And it's from another planet so like it can totally do stuff to things from other planets is the old people = air dolphins = air dolphins = people schtick. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. Hell the TFAW could be deathly allergic to cinnamon. Or mercury. Or high frequency sound. Mimicry does not necessarily entail functionality or assumption of actual material properties... and judging by its apparent actual strength, assuming said properties would be a flaw rather than an asset.

[Kel G 426]

A lot of claims are being made about the Thing's abilities as if they are irrefutable facts, but they are not.  I don't believe a Thing can assimilate an enemy by merely touching them;  All of the assimilations seen in the movie were quite violent, involving more than just touching.  It was not verified that a single cell could infect an entire organism, it was only speculated by the character Fuchs, who seemed to be out of his depth.

THE THING was a great movie, but it is clear to me that the how/when/why logic of the way the creature worked was not thought through very much.  The Thing's abilities are open to endless, endless debate.

It's perfectly plausible that a Thing could infect an Alien.  It is equally plausible that the Alien's acidic body chemistry could make it immune to assimilation.

With that said, I would find an Alien/Thing match-up interesting only if the Alien were immune, and not just because I'm a bigger ALIEN fan.  I say this because if the Thing could take over an Alien, then it really would be no contest.  There could be some cool fighting, but the result would be a foregone conclusion.  Who wants that?  With the infection factor eliminated, we could concentrate on how badass the battles could be.  Imagine what kind of creatures the Thing would imitate in order to fight the Alien, and how the Alien would react to each new incarnation.  That would rock!

As for the Predators, they would do at least as well against the Thing (probably much better) as humans could do.  One of their vision modes could probably detect the Thing, or maybe they couldn't.  Either possibility is legit.

[Xenomrph]

Mimicry does not necessarily entail functionality or assumption of actual material properties... and judging by its apparent actual strength, assuming said properties would be a flaw rather than an asset.

But with the Thing being a "perfect" imitation, it does entail duplicating properties down to the smallest detail. The Thing copied Norris all the way down to his heart condition, which ended up being a bit of a liability for it, for example.

A lot of claims are being made about the Thing's abilities as if they are irrefutable facts, but they are not.  I don't believe a Thing can assimilate an enemy by merely touching them;  All of the assimilations seen in the movie were quite violent, involving more than just touching.  It was not verified that a single cell could infect an entire organism, it was only speculated by the character Fuchs, who seemed to be out of his depth.

This isn't entirely true, Blair postulated that a single cell could take over an organism, as well, and even had computer simulations about the subject. Also, Blair and Windows were not "actively" assimilated - Windows was just infected through contact, as was Blair. We don't know when Norris was taken, but I suspect it was passive as well.

[TheMonolith]

The dogs. Remember the dogs? That was very damn violent. If it wanted to stay hidden, it would have gone the passive route if it could. Just rub up against each one and end of story.It is made clear in the film that the assimilation process is a violent one.

[Xenomrph]

Or perhaps it thought it could assimilate all the dogs more quickly by actively assimilating them, instead of attempting to do it passively and hoping it wasn't discovered and killed. Remember, Windows and Blair were infected through contact and not violent assimilation.

I'm not saying the assimilation process isn't violent, just that there's two ways to do it: passive and active.

[TJ Doc]

How does passive differ from active in "Thinging" terms?

[Xhan]

Mimicry does not necessarily entail functionality or assumption of actual material properties... and judging by its apparent actual strength, assuming said properties would be a flaw rather than an asset.

But with the Thing being a "perfect" imitation, it does entail duplicating properties down to the smallest detail. The Thing copied Norris all the way down to his heart condition, which ended up being a bit of a liability for it, for example.

He was still way stronger than he should have been, which again points to keeping some things separate, hence the giant form at the end, giant dog hydras not exactly found in nature.

How does passive differ from active in "Thinging" terms?

Might take longer.

[TJ Doc]

Uhuh. So it would take it's time, be more careful, and the end result would be flawless, rather than a botch-job.

[Xhan]

Hard to say. That would probably depend on whether it was intelligent enough to recognize flaws versus strengths on a creature it hadn't replicated before. We got the whole spider head thing and the dog attack, so we know that "sticking to the program" is voluntary or instinctual, but not mandatory.

[GrimyGhost]

Hard to say. That would probably depend on whether it was intelligent enough to recognize flaws versus strengths on a creature it hadn't replicated before. We got the whole spider head thing and the dog attack, so we know that "sticking to the program" is voluntary or instinctual, but not mandatory.

thats true, it seems fairly intelligent tho, it didnt show its self in the dog until everyone was out of sight and the same with parker, it didnt change until it was under threat of being exposed from the blood sample.

[Xhan]

But that could also be instinctual as well, blend based on the old organisms mental engrams until alone.