How is AVP-R "going back to the roots"?

Started by Robotpo, Nov 20, 2007, 10:42:23 PM

Author
How is AVP-R "going back to the roots"? (Read 66,673 times)

SM

SM

#210
QuoteThe Queen in Resurrection grew in captivity and produced eggs, before changing cycles. Now, did she use a egg sac? I don't know. We never saw it, but does that mean it didn't happen? Interpret. It took her days to produce, so she could've been full-grown, by that time.

Gediman said "Everything was normal" prior to her starting a second cycle.  She was full grown when Gediman, Perez and Wren viewed her in the cage 3 days after birth.  Ignoring Resurrection data (up till the second cycle starts) is rather silly.

QuoteDoes there need to be more to see? Well, I guess according to some here...no. There have been enough movies to establish everything and nothing else is possible.

There can be new stuff - but within the bounds of the established rules.  Every Alien film has thrown in something new, but none have ever completely ignored the what's gone before and ditched aspects of the life cycle for no valid reason.

SiL

"We want new shit because the old shit is old" isn't a valid reason?

Xenomorphine

Xenomorphine

#212
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Nov 21, 2007, 04:04:54 AM
There were no rules for this situation. What do you expect a young-Queen to do, if she can't mass produce?

Go somewhere quiet and wait until ready to lay her very deadly minefield of eggs.

However, it was basically confirmed, a fair while back, that this is not a Queen, but an ordinary adult transforming into one. In this very topic, that was reiterated.

QuoteI don't see how this regurgitation method breaks anything in the Alien cycle, especially the stages of the Queen. If this only applies to a Queen, then I'm all for it.

It doesn't. It applies to adults, generally. Or at least, those who are undergoing the hormonal/whatever stages necessary to transform into a Queen:

Quote from: Colin_Strause on Nov 21, 2007, 12:36:50 AM
As discussed to death in another thread, there is a complexity to Alien reproduction that isn't limited to such a simple and rigid structure. Nature finds a way, and we've never seen the phase of an Alien pre-queen before. We've seen what born queens do in A:R, but what does a lone alpha Alien do to reproduce? What's that next phase look like? Etc, etc. These were the questions that got us excited when we did our pitch.

People who say that a Queen would be boring presume that it would be presented as a big surprise at the end. Are Predators boring, just because they're doing the same old thing as ever? Queens have a place in the nest and the next step should not necessarily be to add something new, but to use what we've already got in refreshing and intriguing new ways.

You have a creature. You know what it does. Now you build a story around that, giving it opportunities to use those traits to its advantage and play to its most iconic strengths as best as you can.

The psychosexual stuff hasn't really been in play since 1979, if we're talking about the adult stage. Why not reintroduce that? Why not reintroduce egging? We've seen it before, certainly, but we've also seen a lot of other stuff before, too. It's what you, as a film-maker, do with it. That's what counts.

Having said that, we're now getting strong indications that this added reproduction thing is actually egging dressed up in new clothes. We've even been given a major hint that we'll see cocoons.

The question is, does the Predalien use those cocooned victims to give them oral facehuggers or chestbursters?

If this is, indeed, egging coming back, then I think the directors have shot themselves in the foot by alluding to sometihng completely different, all of this time. They could have generated much higher positive publicity for themselves, if they had hinted at such near the start of all this. Instead, it's generated a mass of negative publicity.

If it's not and the thing's sticking chestbursters in people and changing into a Queen, then we've got the same problems as are noted in my signature.

If it's egging victims, however (or doing a close approximation), then what we see might just fit the lifecycle.

Remember, one of the directors has now said he considers the extended versions of the original films to be canon. That includes the cocoon sequence.

But if it's not egging, I'd like to know what the hell he thought was going on with Brett, 'cause that ain't no snazzy new wallpaper idea the Alien's trying on with him...

Space Disc Jockey

Space Disc Jockey

#213
Quote from: SM on Nov 21, 2007, 06:33:12 AM

Gediman said "Everything was normal" prior to her starting a second cycle.  She was full grown when Gediman, Perez and Wren viewed her in the cage 3 days after birth.  Ignoring Resurrection data (up till the second cycle starts) is rather silly.


Are you saying I ignored that data, with that quote? Or are you talking about the regurgitation method ignoring that data? I hope it's the latter.

Quote from: SM on Nov 21, 2007, 06:33:12 AM

There can be new stuff - but within the bounds of the established rules.  Every Alien film has thrown in something new, but none have ever completely ignored the what's gone before and ditched aspects of the life cycle for no valid reason.


Again, falling back all on what we know/have seen in previous films. Using them as a base-line/establishment for everything, which can not be expanded upon further. I know what you're talking about that you expect the films to follow what we know/have learned about the Aliens, from the previous films, but there is still more room to explain them.

Ditch aspects of the Alien life cycle? Now, you are saying that the Alien Queen's only duty, is to become full-grown and produce all the offspring from eggs. It's that simple to explain the Alien Queen. Just like a queen ant. Nothing else can happen. Even though these are an extraterrestrail species, nothing else can be introduced to explain them further.

I understand what you are saying, but you want everything to stay within the limits of what is known of them.  Now, I'm not saying ideas should really get out of hand and we could see Aliens growing wings and flying, for example, but this regurgitation method, again, seems like a characteristic of a Alien. A more "realistic" idea. If the idea seems "Alien-like" and applies to just Queens, then to me, it would be ok. If the Alien warriors use egg-morphing...cool. I like the idea, but am not 100% supportive of it.

I think the REAL idea of AVP-R that needs to be talked about more is not the regurgitation method, but this Alien alpha molting into a Queen idea. This bothers me, but these are a extraterrestrial species, so I guess it's possible. But again, shouldn't have an overboard of new ideas.

Anyway, whenever I hear of a new idea being introduced to something that has been established, I cringe too. I worry. The regurgitation doesn't worry me that much. This molting idea, does though. It's an idea to expand the life-cycle, but I think it's really a stretch.

I would rather like to see the Alien warriors use the egg-morphing or regurgitation, instead of molting into a Queen.

Xenomorphine

Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Nov 21, 2007, 07:17:38 AM
I would rather like to see the Alien warriors use the egg-morphing or regurgitation, instead of molting into a Queen.

That's the thing, really. It's combining both ideas which fouls most theories up and if any adult could just shift out of the nest and become one, what's the point of naturally birthing a Queen?

Space Disc Jockey

I didn't read your post, Xenomorph, before I just posted mine, but yeah, I wanted to mention the Alien molting into a Queen idea, since Colin mentioned again, today.

Space Disc Jockey

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 21, 2007, 07:23:03 AM
Quote from: Space Disc Jockey on Nov 21, 2007, 07:17:38 AM
I would rather like to see the Alien warriors use the egg-morphing or regurgitation, instead of molting into a Queen.

That's the thing, really. It's combining both ideas which fouls most theories up and if any adult could just shift out of the nest and become one, what's the point of naturally birthing a Queen?


Yep. The molting idea should be talked about more here, than the regurgitation method. I think the molting idea causes lots of problems.

That Yellow Alien

That Yellow Alien

#217
Well, maybe the point of birthing Queens is to replace the current Queen before it dies (when ever that happens), while certain drones can actually move out of the nest, molt, and create new hives in other areas. This would help them spread even further at an even faster rate.

gases

is the queen face hugger thing canon? How did queen get in aliens?
if not whats the problem with a dominant warrior molting into a queen, makes more sense to me.

SiL

For those of you coming in late:

Colin and Greg decided they needed to add something new purely for the sake of it. But they had to introduce the idea somehow that wouldn't be too ass. So they decided they could fix a problem with the new cycle. Except no problem existed. So they made a problem, and fixed it. Except the problem still doesn't exist and the idea is still a stinking pile of shit no matter how it's executed, even more so because it's being added just because they wanted to.

Robotpo

^^ I actually LOL'd... :D

Xenomorphine

Quote from: Yellow Alien on Nov 21, 2007, 07:28:59 AM
Well, maybe the point of birthing Queens is to replace the current Queen before it dies (when ever that happens), while certain drones can actually move out of the nest, molt, and create new hives in other areas. This would help them spread even further at an even faster rate.

What would be stopping an adult from just changing and staying in the nest?

That Yellow Alien

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 21, 2007, 07:35:13 AM
Quote from: Yellow Alien on Nov 21, 2007, 07:28:59 AM
Well, maybe the point of birthing Queens is to replace the current Queen before it dies (when ever that happens), while certain drones can actually move out of the nest, molt, and create new hives in other areas. This would help them spread even further at an even faster rate.

What would be stopping an adult from just changing and staying in the nest?

Well, I always thought that if they are really supposed to be modeled after bees and termites nests like Cameron intended, than only one Queen may exist in a given nest at a time. A drone can't molt if a Queen is already present.

SiL

Jimmy crack corn
The Bros don't care
Jimmy crack corn
The Bros don't care
Jimmy crack corn
The Bros don't caaaaaaaaaare ...

Because even though we know Jimmy cracked corn he could've possibly cracked nuts beforehaaaaaand!

Clydewyman

The reasons how AVP-R is going back to the roots I could think of are,

- It features a slimmer, more athletic Predator as seen in the previous 2 Predator movies

- It is back to being a gritty horror-action movie

- Thermal vision is now blue just like in the game and the previous 2 Predator movies (someone mentioned this before)

That's all I could think of.

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