Alien or Predator?

[DoomRulz]

The Predator on the other hand is a Hollywood cop-out. It's basically just a big guy with a big gun.

And wristblades, and a spear, and a spear gun, and a throwing disc...

The warrior-tribe thing is pretty unimpressive, given that such a culture is directly influenced by cultures already existing on earth.

And that means what, exactly?

In addition, it appears mostly to appeal to the kind of audience who don't grasp that the point of any good narrative is to explain a concept, or reveal a way of thinking. The Predator movies never set out to do either of these things, and the monster design reflects this. It's lazy, boring and signifies nothing.

It's not supposed to. The Predator is not supposed to be some sort of psychosexual creature with mysterious tones to it like the Alien. It is simply a hunter, and a very technologically advanced one at that.

The Predator is a great representation of Hollywood money-mongering and it's a shame that the genius of ALIEN ended up being brought low by such tripe.

And yet the Predator, along with the movie (first), has become one of Hollywood's most recognizable monsters, along with several pop culture appearances to its name and continues to interest movie fans to this day.

[MadassAlex]

And wristblades, and a spear, and a spear gun, and a throwing disc...

That doesn't change my point at all. It's essentially human in design.

And that means what, exactly?

It means that it's not really very alien or truly exotic. It doesn't help that the warrior-race thing is a trope that's called upon far too often.

It's not supposed to. The Predator is not supposed to be some sort of psychosexual creature with mysterious tones to it like the Alien. It is simply a hunter, and a very technologically advanced one at that.

Spot on. It's boring and uncreative.

And yet the Predator, along with the movie (first), has become one of Hollywood's most recognizable monsters, along with several pop culture appearances to its name and continues to interest movie fans to this day.

You're illustrating my points very, very well here. The Predator is all flash, no substance, because substance doesn't create popularity but regression. Look what happened to the ALIEN series - it was consistently dumbed down time and time again. You don't need to dumb down the Predator; it's already a ridiculously stupid, boring, unoriginal concept.

I might point out at this point that getting defensive about your movie monster of choice is a pretty stereotypical pit to fall in for a Predator fan when it comes to this franchise. I remember when I used to post at Planet AvP, before it died, the sheer amount of Pred worship and the backlash whenever anyone had the gall to interrupt that. Just be happy with your opinion and your own enjoyment of the creature - I'm just some guy on the internet, surely you don't require my approval?

[SiL]

It means that it's not really very alien or truly exotic. It doesn't help that the warrior-race thing is a trope that's called upon far too often.

Neither was the Alien after it was turned into a termite, what's that got to do with anything?

Spot on. It's boring and uncreative.

I've been a die-hard Alien fan most my life, but even I couldn't call the Predator itself boring, especially in the first movie.

I might point out at this point that getting defensive about your movie monster of choice is a pretty stereotypical pit to fall in for a Predator fan when it comes to this franchise.

No shit? You're attacking something he likes - the f**k do you expect him to do, bend over and take your opinion as law?

Seriously, what the hell is your problem? You're the kind of asshole Alien fanboy that makes me dislike associating with Alien fans.

[Kriszilla]

It means that it's not really very alien or truly exotic. It doesn't help that the warrior-race thing is a trope that's called upon far too often.

Neither was the Alien after it was turned into a termite, what's that got to do with anything?

Spot on. It's boring and uncreative.

I've been a die-hard Alien fan most my life, but even I couldn't call the Predator itself boring, especially in the first movie.

I might point out at this point that getting defensive about your movie monster of choice is a pretty stereotypical pit to fall in for a Predator fan when it comes to this franchise.

No shit? You're attacking something he likes - the f**k do you expect him to do, bend over and take your opinion as law?

Seriously, what the hell is your problem? You're the kind of asshole Alien fanboy that makes me dislike associating with Alien fans.

This.

There's nothing wrong with the predator, I just think you're trying to piss of predator fans.

[MadassAlex]

I just think that the Predator was a pretty cheap, boring Hollywood ploy. That's just my opinion and, like I said, I'm just some random asshole on the internet so there's no reason you have to care about it. This has nothing to do with him "bending over".

I dislike something he likes and I have my reasons - not a big deal. There's no personal conflict here at all, so don't turn this into one. For what it's worth, I don't have anything against anyone here for any reason, and I'm pretty happy with that state of affairs. I'm not about to start a hate crusade just because someone's a Predator fan.

Chill pill.

EDIT: The Predator fanboy comment was a pretty poor show, though. Sorry about that one.

[Predboy]

There's nothing wrong with the predator, I just think you're trying to piss of predator fans.

Which I should say, isn't really a good idea, atleast here.

[MadassAlex]

Mhm, it was like that at Planet AvP. I know what I'm getting myself into.

Let me reiterate that I'm not taking a stab at Predator fans. I just really dislike Predators as I find them uninteresting as a concept and uninspired as a design, especially in this franchise where the comparison was always going to be made.

Although, as an aside, while I still don't find Predators very interesting, AvP does make them substantially cooler in general. Hunting down human beings from the 90s who just aren't genre savvy is a pretty awful way for a super-hunter to spend their time, but admittedly giving them a proper foe makes their presence justified.

[Master Chief]

So I'm sure you loved what Wolf did to the aliens in AVPR.

[MadassAlex]

Short answer: Yeah.

Long answer: I think Predator fans should be pretty pissed off at that, too.

I mean, aside from the Aliens behaving stupidly and, you know, not mashing up Wolf using their weaponised bodies, it's like Wolf didn't really have an enemy to fight. Holding off two immobile Aliens isn't much of a victory, and if I was a Pred I wouldn't be telling that story when I'm an Elder.

"Tell us a story, Grandpa Wolf, about fighting the Aliens!"
"f**k YOU CHILDREN"

Did Wolf kill the Predalien? I don't remember. That was an abomination anyway and I was rather surprised that the other Aliens didn't destroy it themselves.

Although, most of what I remember from that movie was "awful teen drama subplot" and "why did they choose this setting for a goddamn monster brawl someone please fill me in c'mon guys seriously".

But back to the topic of hating on Predators, them defeating Aliens isn't the issue so much as them being uninteresting to me. I mean, according to canon sources they have the capacity to defeat such creatures so that's fair enough. It's just that when I see a Predator, I see a big ugly dude with neat technology, not a compelling monster.

[Johnny Handsome]

What the hell is your problem anyway? You expressed your opinion about the Predator, you don't like it, fine, you hate shit out of it, fine, but arguing with someone who likes it and attacking him for his opinion is a pretty stupid move.

Especially on a Alien/Predator fanboard.


Move on.

[Master Chief]

He's only expressing his disdain towards the Predator, JH.  I'm certain that this vent will be over soon enough.  Let him be.

[MadassAlex]

I didn't hate on him for liking the Predator. I've pointed that out, specifically, twice at least. It's more that he got defensive and responded with an absolutely awful argument that didn't really undo any of my criticisms of the Predator.

I've seen this guy post on other parts of the forum and he seems like a good dude. No offense meant and I don't consider him a poor poster.

Let me reiterate:

I'm not looking for conflict here nor do I really see one unless someone chooses to reignite it. We're debating fictional creatures in a corporate-designed monster mash, so let's treat this lightly. Frankly, I'd enjoy debating the design and narrative merits of the Predator if anyone wants to offer their own arguments in its favour.

EDIT: My words were highly reactionary, and considered a quantity of Predator cocksucking that I generally perceived in the AvP community at large but does not appear to be so powerful here. Was anyone here apart from SiL a part of the Planet AvP community during the peak of AvP2's popularity? You'd understand.

[Johnny Handsome]

It's more that he got defensive and responded with an absolutely awful argument that didn't really undo any of my criticisms of the Predator.

I just told someone that i wont even bother arguing with you, and i wont, but i think i have to clarify to you how this site works.

His argument, or any argument on this site not only regarding Alien or Predator, is not supposed to change people opinions, or how you call it, 'undo criticism'.

If you don't like something then you wont like it, no matter what, because you have your own reasons for disliking it, but at the same time, we have our reasons to like it, and no one will change that, even if 20 of guys like you say "Yo, the predator sucks, its booooring!".

His opinion will not make you love the Predator, and neither will your statements make us dislike it.
Statements are only made to express your own opinion, not to change anybody else's, and seriously, what did you expect him to say? You're saying the Predator is stupid, he was saying it isn't, so what? What did you really expect to happen?

It's like going into a midnight bar full of bikers and telling one of the guys "Hey, i just pissed all over your motorcycle, but i'm sure that's just fine!!" And you expect him to agree with you and stating your opinion as fact.
You expressed your opinion, he doesn't agree with you, i don't agree with you and so doesn't the rest of us from what i have seen so far. You have to respect that and we have to respect that, its just an opinion that we wont change, and like said before, you wont change ours, so the whole arguing you're doing is unnecessary in the first place.

Like i said, please move on.

[MadassAlex]

I didn't come into this thread with the intent to change any opinions - I came in with the intent of expressing mine and I did. When my opinion was put under scrutiny, I responded in kind.

Sure I was an asshole about it and I regret that at this point since you're getting defensive, but it's no reason not to bring up those aspects in discussion. Hell, maybe I'll gain a new appreciation for the Predator at some point if its merits are discussed in a different light. I'm not even bullshitting here. Maybe there's some aspect I'm just not getting. I could be dead wrong. It's happened before.

I don't particularly care about anyone agreeing with me (or otherwise I would've expressed myself with a hint of tact in the first place), I just want to make it clear that it's absolutely nothing personal. It's not as if I go "OH SHIT PRED FAN RAGE TIME". I had pretty much moved on after my second post and now I'm just responding to further posts. The best way to get me to "move on" is to stop behaving as if I'm trying to engage in some kind of conflict anymore, because I have minimal investment in this thread.

If this were a meatlife disagreement, this is the part where I offer to buy you a drink and call it even.

[Predboy]

Just try not to make your post as if you're trying to take a jab at the predator, and (hopefully) people wont overreact next time.