Two paths of Alien movies

Started by Kradan, Feb 21, 2019, 02:56:16 PM

What do you prefer to be in Alien movies?

Developed characters
4 (17.4%)
Fascinating mythology
2 (8.7%)
Perfect blend of both
17 (73.9%)

Total Members Voted: 23

Author
Two paths of Alien movies (Read 2,318 times)

Adam802

Adam802

#15
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Feb 24, 2019, 03:46:41 PM
This might be controversial, but I hope the Ridley prequels are retconned out one day.

100% agree, your statement shouldn't be controversial at all. 

The Old One

The Old One

#16
I don't think they should. They've done nothing harmful to the lore than can't be recontextualised whilst keeping all the good shit they introduced.

SM

SM

#17
I don't think they've done anything harmful to the lore that needs recontextualising.

The Old One

The Old One

#18
I'm sure many would disagree on two points in particular;

1. The Space Jockeys = The Engineers

2. David, the Alien Creator.

Deadmeat

Deadmeat

#19
Personal preference here. Good, compelling characters can outshine underdeveloped or even controversial lore.

Alien and Predator are perfect examples. We were rooting for the characters, not the beast. The mystique simply adds to the effect. Some didn't care the beast wasn't fleshed out, others reveled in the vagueness since it got the gears in their heads turning. Few if anyone had genuine complaints about the lack of info.

Aliens expanded on the mythos, sure, but it would have all been thrown out the window if the movie wasn't gripping and compelling in its own right. And that would not have been achieved if they sacrificed characterization.

After all these are just movies. Damn good ones, but movies. And I'd like to see someone trying to argument that any movie will benefit from emphasizing on the world-building and mythos instead of good, solid characters to carry us through them.

In the end, the best option is a combination of both, no doubt. But when you boil it down to the bare essentials, characterization is infinitely more important than lore.

The Old One

The Old One

#20
^ This right here, this right here.

Agreed.

SM

SM

#21
Quote from: The Old One on Feb 24, 2019, 07:25:46 PM
I'm sure many would disagree on two points in particular;

1. The Space Jockeys = The Engineers

2. David, the Alien Creator.

There was no in-film lore to be harmed in those examples.

People liking them or not is another matter.

Rankles75

Rankles75

#22
Quote from: Deadmeat on Feb 24, 2019, 07:39:08 PM
Personal preference here. Good, compelling characters can outshine underdeveloped or even controversial lore.

Alien and Predator are perfect examples. We were rooting for the characters, not the beast. The mystique simply adds to the effect. Some didn't care the beast wasn't fleshed out, others reveled in the vagueness since it got the gears in their heads turning. Few if anyone had genuine complaints about the lack of info.

Aliens expanded on the mythos, sure, but it would have all been thrown out the window if the movie wasn't gripping and compelling in its own right. And that would not have been achieved if they sacrificed characterization.

After all these are just movies. Damn good ones, but movies. And I'd like to see someone trying to argument that any movie will benefit from emphasizing on the world-building and mythos instead of good, solid characters to carry us through them.

In the end, the best option is a combination of both, no doubt. But when you boil it down to the bare essentials, characterization is infinitely more important than lore.

Yup, that pretty much covers it!

Voodoo Magic

Voodoo Magic

#23
Quote from: Deadmeat on Feb 24, 2019, 07:39:08 PM
Personal preference here. Good, compelling characters can outshine underdeveloped or even controversial lore.

Alien and Predator are perfect examples. We were rooting for the characters, not the beast. The mystique simply adds to the effect. Some didn't care the beast wasn't fleshed out, others reveled in the vagueness since it got the gears in their heads turning. Few if anyone had genuine complaints about the lack of info.

Aliens expanded on the mythos, sure, but it would have all been thrown out the window if the movie wasn't gripping and compelling in its own right. And that would not have been achieved if they sacrificed characterization.

After all these are just movies. Damn good ones, but movies. And I'd like to see someone trying to argument that any movie will benefit from emphasizing on the world-building and mythos instead of good, solid characters to carry us through them.

In the end, the best option is a combination of both, no doubt. But when you boil it down to the bare essentials, characterization is infinitely more important than lore.

Well said!

Quote from: The Old One on Feb 24, 2019, 07:25:46 PM
I'm sure many would disagree on two points in particular;

1. The Space Jockeys = The Engineers

2. David, the Alien Creator.

Indeed.

The Old One

The Old One

#24
Thing is, I don't feel you have to retcon the prequels out completely to change those two points of contention.

Local Trouble

Local Trouble

#25
How would you do it?

Voodoo Magic

Voodoo Magic

#26
Quote from: The Old One on Feb 24, 2019, 10:43:44 PM
Thing is, I don't feel you have to retcon the prequels out completely to change those two points of contention.

That's a fair point. But the navigating of such an effort would likely be quite messy to anyone not a hardcore fan like us. (imo)

The Old One

The Old One

#27
Push the creator, creation angle even farther by revealing the SJ's created the Engineers eons ago, some cataclysm happened and they disappeared. They discovered the Alien, it destroyed them. The Engineers, millennia later inherited their technology.

The Pathogen, which the SJs derived from the Alien, somehow (the audience isn't told) is all that remains of that Galactic extinction event. Ruins, and technological remains. The SJ's wanted to fight fire with fire with the Pathogen, but the Pathogen- although destructive to worlds- couldn't infect or best the Alien. In fact it always worked it's way towards something resembling the Alien more and more with each use. All the Space Jockey's race die, all but a few. They're effectively extinct.



So the Engineers, in their hubris- flying too close to the sun, make the same mistakes in using this almost "seductively" powerful Pathogen, believing they can control it- it leaves their civilizations in ruins LV-223 being the source of the main disaster, which they abandon. So obviously they banish the Wolf, undo their creation but in the process become the insular and primitive society we see in Covenant.

David gets the wrong end of the stick, believes he's creating something original but in reality it is guiding him to almost supernaturally, resurrect the Alien from extinction.
He would realise this when he discovers the Derelict, or the Derelict discovers him- and that would be his grand downfall- not just physically but mentally.


Local Trouble

Local Trouble

#28
Not a bad idea.  I hope it doesn't get vetoed.

The Old One

The Old One

#29
Affirmative Shepard-Commander.

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