Aliens: An Analysis

[SiL]

Hence Burke trying to be sneaky about the whole thing.

[City Hunter Yautja]

Hence Burke trying to be sneaky about the whole thing.

I just thought he was being sneaky to ensure he can get what The Company wants. Not that he was evading the Govt.

[SiL]

I just thought he was being sneaky to ensure he can get what The Company wants. Not that he was evading the Govt.

He specifically says he didn't warn the colonists about what they might find to avoid the government stepping in.

[Local Trouble]

Smuggling dangerous specimens through ICC quarantine would also qualify as evading the government.

[City Hunter Yautja]

Gotcha. But that goes back to my point, Weyland operates through sneaky folk like Burke. Or was he doing that on his own and Weyland would gladly take his specimens, but have deniability?

[SiL]

The latter. He's operating solo - but the company would gladly take whatever he found.

[City Hunter Yautja]

The latter. He's operating solo - but the company would gladly take whatever he found.

I agree on that. Between what you and Trouble shared, that makes the most sense.

Pardon if I am slow on this, Weyland is an evil corporation got stuck in my head for many scenes that I failed to grasp the govt is separate.

Me:

[Local Trouble]

I imagine the company wouldn't be very happy about the loss of their investment on LV-426, though.  Burke may want to omit that the sequence of events leading to that outcome was set into motion by him.

[SiL]

I imagine the company wouldn't be very happy about the loss of their investment on LV-426, though.  Burke may want to omit that the sequence of events leading to that outcome was set into motion by him.

Very true.

The latter. He's operating solo - but the company would gladly take whatever he found.

I agree on that. Between what you and Trouble shared, that makes the most sense.

Pardon if I am slow on this, Weyland is an evil corporation got stuck in my head for many scenes that I failed to grasp the govt is separate.

Me: https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-a11ce11eb4113b1b649f08db7d18ba60

To be fair the EU ran with the idea that WY is basically the government for decades. It's a common misconception.

[City Hunter Yautja]

I imagine the company wouldn't be very happy about the loss of their investment on LV-426, though.  Burke may want to omit that the sequence of events leading to that outcome was set into motion by him.

Very true.

The latter. He's operating solo - but the company would gladly take whatever he found.

I agree on that. Between what you and Trouble shared, that makes the most sense.

Pardon if I am slow on this, Weyland is an evil corporation got stuck in my head for many scenes that I failed to grasp the govt is separate.

Me: https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-a11ce11eb4113b1b649f08db7d18ba60

To be fair the EU ran with the idea that WY is basically the government for decades. It's a common misconception.

Thanks, that makes me feel better: i so love these movies, and to know my misconception is uncommon is a boon.

[ralfy]

The weird thing is that even as officials claim not to have discovered indigenous life forms in numerous worlds, the marines also referred to having to deal with "another bug hunt." Also, if the colonists were sending reports to the company even as more of their people were being killed or captured by the aliens, then all the officials had to do before sending the Sulaco was connect those reports with what Ripley said.

My theory is Weyland sent both the colonists there to be hosts and sent the marines to help collect embryos; LV-421 being basically a living lab. They sent Ripley probably hoping she'd perish and all records of the Nostromo would be wiped.

In Covenant, David basically is going to create another Hadley's Hope.

Yes, that's likely, although I would have sent a wildcat team with clear instructions to just verify the existence of the alien ship without entering it because it's very hazardous to do so, etc., in return for their expected cut. If they disobey, the void the latter. And then send a team to secure the site and do things by the numbers.

As for Ripley, I'd drop all charges, reinstate her flight status and give all compensation and bonuses, and then pay her off. If for some reason she is needed for the mission, then she should stay on the Sulaco with security and technical staff.

That makes no sense. Why wait decades to investigate? Why wait for Ripley -- who everyone thought was dead -- to reappear and say something?

And Weyland-Yutani doesn't send the marines, the government does.

It took decades to terraform LV-421 so that living hosts like the colonists could live there.

I don't think Weyland expected Ripley to reappear, remember she was found by a salvage crew and was drifting for 50+ years.

As for government and Weyland, I see them connected in the movies. Weyland Yutani is on all Hadley's Hope lab and etc. Goverment sends in The Marines, but Ripley says Weyland has a weapons division in Alien.

Indeed. It was explained in this thread that the colony is a joint project of the company and government, and that the company and government work together towards weaponizing alien discoveries, with the first developing and monetizing and the second purchasing.

When it comes to LV-426, they basically are.  When it comes to the deployment of military forces and how they operate, the government has the final say.

Understood. So govt has final say, but couldn't Weyland go rogue and try to get their "f***ing percentage,"? Wasn't that what Burke was doing?

Not only that, but the government could "go rogue," too, as it can gain through bioweapons, etc., developed by the country.

Also, it's percentages across the board: the truckers get their cut, and so do the wildcatters, the manager, and Burke who is in charge of the latter two, while the government gains from what's developed. It's like the current military industrial complex. I wouldn't be surprised if that served as an inspiration for W-Y.

[SiL]

@City Hunter Yautja  as you can see Ralfy is not so receptive to having it explained to him that he didn't pay enough attention while watching the movie 😂

[ralfy]

Gotcha. But that goes back to my point, Weyland operates through sneaky folk like Burke. Or was he doing that on his own and Weyland would gladly take his specimens, but have deniability?

Burke could have only been able to operate secretly if only he had access to the location of the ship, was the only one who could communicate with the colony, and could manage to commandeer a military ship and armed unit.

The problem is that the only source of the location of the ship would have been the lifeboat logs, and both company and government would also have access to that. If so, then that means they would not bother to investigate the location given van Leuwen's ridiculous excuse, and for some perplexing reason Ripley would not demand the same even as it's the only piece of evidence that she has to prove her story.

For the first, the fact that the company has a very strong policy of investigating phenomena to the point that they consider both crew and even company assets expendable contradicts van Leuwen's excuse. Add to this Ripley's point that discoveries may involve development of bioweapons, which would have made the government very interested, too. As for the view that they've never experienced encountering alien phenomena, the Marines' references to bug hunts and Arcturians show that they had encountered various species, and that would have made the need to investigate this matter even more plausible.

For the second, one wiki entry and a point raised by several in this thread shows that the colony is a joint project of the company and the government. That would have made the government even more interested, and both communicating with the colony, and through Burke. That plus the fact that Burke is intent on getting a percentage plus the source of the alien ship shows that he could not have been working alone. In addition, if he did consider that, then he would have commonsensically argued otherwise with himself as he has no means to obtain and develop technology from aliens himself, and would have operated on a rock that's likely owned by the company and government.

Third, I think it would have been unlikely for a private individual to order a military vessel with Marines to accompany him without the military and the government not knowing. Even the commander of the Marines would not move unless he received orders from higher-ups. That means top officials were definitely involved, and they made Burke their point man.

The latter. He's operating solo - but the company would gladly take whatever he found.

I agree on that. Between what you and Trouble shared, that makes the most sense.

Pardon if I am slow on this, Weyland is an evil corporation got stuck in my head for many scenes that I failed to grasp the govt is separate.

Me: https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-a11ce11eb4113b1b649f08db7d18ba60

Why would a company and government that basically controls not just the colony but even own the rock with its mineral rights think that Burke gets everything and they get a percentage? It's the other way round: they own everything that's on the rock and Burke, the wildcatters, the truckers in the first movie, etc., get a percentage.

[Valaquen]

Gotcha. But that goes back to my point, Weyland operates through sneaky folk like Burke. Or was he doing that on his own and Weyland would gladly take his specimens, but have deniability?

Burke could have only been able to operate secretly if only he had access to the location of the ship, was the only one who could communicate with the colony, and could manage to commandeer a military ship and armed unit.

The problem is that the only source of the location of the ship would have been the lifeboat logs, and both company and government would also have access to that. If so, then that means they would not bother to investigate the location given van Leuwen's ridiculous excuse, and for some perplexing reason Ripley would not demand the same even as it's the only piece of evidence that she has to prove her story.

IIRC, the film tells us Ripley put the location of the derelict in her report, which was made available to the ICC/Company inquest and the Marines (Gorman mentions the report). Ripley insisted the Company check out the co-ordinates and they ignore her.

Why would a company and government that basically controls not just the colony but even own the rock with its mineral rights think that Burke gets everything and they get a percentage? It's the other way round: they own everything that's on the rock and Burke, the wildcatters, the truckers in the first movie, etc., get a percentage.

I think we're told the rights etc go to whoever makes the discovery. Like the wild west. That's why Russ Jorden insists on investigating personally.

The idea in the original ALIEN was that the Company programmed their ships with hidden protocols to take advantage of similar extraterrestrial discoveries. The presence of Ash or any other android ensures these orders are followed, unbeknownst to the ship crews. There was no mastermind pointing to LV426 and waiting for the perfect moment to snatch up a sample of the Alien. No one in the Company knew what the Alien was, or that it was there. The idea was that these things are done automatically, and the crew left to the mercy of Mother and Ash, who take their orders to the extreme. Special Order 937 was probably coded into every ship and activated in special circumstances. The original scripts by Giler and Hill did have the Company create the Alien and try to activate a sample. Later drafts streamlined this, and shaved off some of the Company's responsibility. That's why we have this confusing situation where fans don't know what the Company wanted or what it was doing. O'Bannon himself was to have said, "You'd go crazy trying to figure out how the company set up the crew to discover the Alien" because it was always quite nebulous and changed throughout production many times.

Hope I answered some question here.

[ralfy]

Gotcha. But that goes back to my point, Weyland operates through sneaky folk like Burke. Or was he doing that on his own and Weyland would gladly take his specimens, but have deniability?

Burke could have only been able to operate secretly if only he had access to the location of the ship, was the only one who could communicate with the colony, and could manage to commandeer a military ship and armed unit.

The problem is that the only source of the location of the ship would have been the lifeboat logs, and both company and government would also have access to that. If so, then that means they would not bother to investigate the location given van Leuwen's ridiculous excuse, and for some perplexing reason Ripley would not demand the same even as it's the only piece of evidence that she has to prove her story.

IIRC, the film tells us Ripley put the location of the derelict in her report, which was made available to the ICC/Company inquest and the Marines (Gorman mentions the report). Ripley insisted the Company check out the co-ordinates and they ignore her.

Why would a company and government that basically controls not just the colony but even own the rock with its mineral rights think that Burke gets everything and they get a percentage? It's the other way round: they own everything that's on the rock and Burke, the wildcatters, the truckers in the first movie, etc., get a percentage.

I think we're told the rights etc go to whoever makes the discovery. Like the wild west. That's why Russ Jorden insists on investigating personally.

The idea in the original ALIEN was that the Company programmed their ships with hidden protocols to take advantage of similar extraterrestrial discoveries. The presence of Ash or any other android ensures these orders are followed, unbeknownst to the ship crews. There was no mastermind pointing to LV426 and waiting for the perfect moment to snatch up a sample of the Alien. No one in the Company knew what the Alien was, or that it was there. The idea was that these things are done automatically, and the crew left to the mercy of Mother and Ash, who take their orders to the extreme. Special Order 937 was probably coded into every ship and activated in special circumstances. The original scripts by Giler and Hill did have the Company create the Alien and try to activate a sample. Later drafts streamlined this, and shaved off some of the Company's responsibility. That's why we have this confusing situation where fans don't know what the Company wanted or what it was doing. O'Bannon himself was to have said, "You'd go crazy trying to figure out how the company set up the crew to discover the Alien" because it was always quite nebulous and changed throughout production many times.

Hope I answered some question here.

That's why it would have been illogical for Burke to have acted alone, as the board had the same details on the location.

To counter that, the claim is that they didn't bother, and that's it. That's illogical, too, because the company had a history of investigating such phenomena and even willing to sacrifice personnel and assets to monetize them. Add to that Ripley's point about bioweapons, which would have made the government very interested, too. In short, it's a military industrial complex, just like in current circumstances.

I think they get a percentage, not all rights, because I think "mineral rights" implies that the company and the government essentially own the rock. Any discoveries, then, lead to a percentage. That's why in the first movie the truckers are told that they would get a cut from whatever is earned, and why Ripley also refers to Burke getting his percentage.

There's another logical reason why one ends up with a percentage: the capital expenditures needed to monetize finds would be unaffordable for any individual. That would not be the case for corporations, which is why one usually ends up with a percentage of earnings, and the rest goes to those who provide labs, experts, manufacturing equipment, etc., provided by others.