Theology

[Sabby]

Human achievement tends to be the work of a person though. Newton did it, yes, but he did it through science.

[BANE]

So? It's still people.

[Sabby]

Yes, but your limiting things far too much. It's like saying oh, no, the first car wasn't made via engineering, a guy did it.

[BANE]

Yeah. A guy did do it. Using his ingenuity to further and bring to life engineering principles.

So why then would I give credit to engineering? "Look, see this car? Look what engineering can do". No. It's human ingenuity, devotion and hard work using engineering.

"Oh look, Biology discovered Penicillin! And hey: vaccines are developed by science! My cancer was treated by science. Oh, and I'm alive today because my mom and dad engaged in science".

Science is the application of the scientific method in the study of different things. This method was created by people and is used by people.

[Sabby]

I don't understand why you object to that. Isn't saying 'medicine saved me' also including the doctor?

[BANE]

Medicine as in the field of study or actual medicine (like pills and vaccines and such)?

[Sabby]

Let me try again.

"Medical science saved my life"

To me, this encompasses both the practice of medicine, and the human beings involved in it, as the former cannot happen without the latter.

So when someone says "Isn't science great", that extends to Scientists, not just the scientific method. I assume you see it differently?

[BANE]

I think it's too dehumanizing to say "science is the reason for this accomplishment". I mean, I'm glad you see it as including scientists as well, but it just doesn't sound like it to me. Science itself is as useless as a screwdriver without intelligent, innovative and dedicated people to use it in making discoveries (basic science) and creating useful things from it (applied science).

I don't know, I just hear alot of scientists preaching how great science is, when it's really the people who are great. A tool is only as great as what you use it for.

[Sabby]

It might sound dehumanizing, but can science ever really be a thing without a thinking creature applying it? I find it stranger to refer to science and NOT include the human element.

[BANE]

Can anything we've invented be a thing without a thinking creature applying it?

Although you make a good point.

[KirklandSignature]

Yeah, because that's worked out so well for Atheism+?

It's still an active movement(it's website is still online). You'd be a fool to think that Neil deGrasse Tyson and his friends don't represent a more advanced branch of skeptical skeptics.

How much more advanced can you be? It's simple. You don't believe in God because God cannot be proven with empirical evidence so you defer to science. Neil just offers more evidence for the strengths of science. The core atheist beliefs haven't deviated from that.

As far as combating religion peacefully and rationally, NdGT seems to have something good going on. Rational society looks down on atheists who wish to give religion a taste of their own medicine. This new atheism...I like it! ANOTHER!

[Sabby]

Remember a while ago you wanted people to shout at the God Hates Fags guys, because they were shouting? And before that you wanted to restrict Middle Eastern people from entering The States, because 'we can't trust them?'

Making people taste their own medicine isn't the most effective way to move forward.

[KirklandSignature]

Remember a while ago you wanted people to shout at the God Hates Fags guys, because they were shouting? And before that you wanted to restrict Middle Eastern people from entering The States, because 'we can't trust them?'

Making people taste their own medicine isn't the most effective way to move forward.

if the Vatican were to be "removed" via the same methods the church has been using against non-conformers for centuries;The results of a free world ridden of the worlds most evil religion would be felt immediately.

[Sabby]

No, we'd have a society run by thugs who think the ends justify the means.

[DoomRulz]

I think that's called anarchy.