Theology

[maledoro]

ever heard this story?

A fellow was stuck on his rooftop in a flood. He was praying to God for help.

Soon a man in a rowboat came by and the fellow shouted to the man on the roof, "Jump in, I can save you."

The stranded fellow shouted back, "No, it's OK, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me."

So the rowboat went on.

Then a motorboat came by. "The fellow in the motorboat shouted, "Jump in, I can save you."

To this the stranded man said, "No thanks, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith."

So the motorboat went on.

Then a helicopter came by and the pilot shouted down, "Grab this rope and I will lift you to safety."

To this the stranded man again replied, "No thanks, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith."

So the helicopter reluctantly flew away.

Soon the water rose above the rooftop and the man drowned. He went to Heaven. He finally got his chance to discuss this whole situation with God, at which point he exclaimed, "I had faith in you but you didn't save me, you let me drown. I don't understand why!"

To this God replied, "I sent you a rowboat and a motorboat and a helicopter, what more did you expect?"

That was a favorite joke around the seminary.

[MoonerSK]

i just used it because of the 'protect me from thirst' so that you know that it isn't like that you will have no need to drink but he will kinda make sure you can get a dring

[maledoro]

i just used it because of the 'protect me from thirst' so that you know that it isn't like that you will have no need to drink but he will kinda make sure you can get a dring

But, again, I have to take it upon myself to get my drink. It's up to me to earn and pay the money for it.

[MoonerSK]

and what? god is not supposed to give you everything you want. the reward comes in the afterlife

[maledoro]

and what? god is not supposed to give you everything you want. the reward comes in the afterlife

Then what was that all about earlier with the flood and boat and helicopter? That wasn't about the Afterlife.

You might want to reread Matthew 7:7-11:

"Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!"

[MoonerSK]

the guy asked and god send him a bout he didn't magically telleported him from the rooftop. the thing that he actually needed to stand up and go to the bout instead of just sitting there waiting for magical rescue meant that you as well need to do something and not just ask and wait

[maledoro]

the guy asked and god send him a bout he didn't magically telleported him from the rooftop. the thing that he actually needed to stand up and go to the bout instead of just sitting there waiting for magical rescue meant that you as well need to do something and not just ask and wait

I understood that the first time I heard it 29 years ago. But you were talking about God giving you what you need in the Afterlife and the flood and boat was supposed to be in the Here and Now. So, which is it: prayer works for what you need in this life, or it works for getting you to a better place in the Afterlife?

[MoonerSK]

prayer works for what you need in this life but the point of a prayer isn't to give you everything you wantwithout even moving a finger. i used the boat example because of this:

What if I wanted him to protect me from thirst? I'd still have to go out and get my refreshment,

because here it seems like if you didn't understand that you need to do something for it as well.

and the thing that gets you a better place in the afterlife are your actions

[maledoro]

because here it seems like if you didn't understand that you need to do something for it as well.

But Scripture says otherwise.

If I need to do it myself, then I don't need God.

[MoonerSK]

the post before you said you understand it. and i don't remember a part that says sit on your buts, don't do a single thing i would give you everything

[Sabby]

Mooner, the problem is that the God in this equation is kind of useless. It's no different to you attributing your opportunities to me, just I won't give you everything. I expect you to take the initiative and do your best for your own benefit.

What kind of a presence do I have here? Bloody none. I'm just an unnecessary step in the process.

[MoonerSK]

i get that, i just don't like the point of view that believers just pray and expect god to give them everything

[maledoro]

i get that, i just don't like the point of view that believers just pray and expect god to give them everything

Well, not everything...just everything that they pray for. But, in keeping within this thread, I never said that Bleevers prayed for everything. I don't hold that view of them at all. I'm just saying that in the time after a disaster, they might find it more rewarding to pick up a hammer and rebuild than to pick up a bible and pray to the god that could have prevented the disaster in the first place or, worse yet, sent it their way.

[Sabby]

Strange that natural disasters are always God being morally ambiguous, rather then Satan. It's like they want to attribute evil to Satan, just not any kind of real power.

[maledoro]

And this doesn't include those who died in the Flood.