Theology

[Sgt. Apone]

Yeah, pointlessly provoking festering worms is always fun.

In this case.

What a great mentality.

You take me far too seriously.

You can laugh and poke fun at anyone.

I don't take anything seriously, unfortunately.

http://www.atheistmemebase.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/207-Lets-stop-arguing-with-fundies.jpg

I agree with this one.

I hate this....what if it takes another 1,000 years for Christianity to blow over?

What if nobody gives a f**k?

That's great....let humanity get held back even more longer. f**k that bullshit.

Holding who back? Is it holding you back right now?

[Sabby]

Does it need to effect you personally for you to take issue with it? Religion does have a pretty nasty track record of holding back society, man. I don't think people should wait until that poison reaches them to take issue with it.

[Kimarhi]

Yall still don't realize your pushing the same shiz.

[Sabby]

Yall still don't realize your pushing the same shiz.

Explain.

[Kimarhi]

Wanting to offset or replace somebody elses viewpoint because it doesn't fit in with yours.  Exactly the same thing you've been accusing religious folks of doing except your replacing belief with lack thereof.

Instead of having a bunch of people believing in something your just going to end up with a bunch of people believing in nothing.  I don't know that this is an improvement.

[Sabby]

Instead of having a bunch of people believing in something your just going to end up with a bunch of people believing in nothing.

I want nothing of the sort. Could you please show me where I claimed to have wanted this, or something in the definition of Rationalism or Atheism that implies any such thing?

Also, you seem to be operating under the falsehood that all views are merely opinions, and that all opinions are equal. Would you be okay with not teaching Geocentrism in astronomy class, or would you consider teaching that the sun is in the middle an attempt to force out and take over Geocentrisms place in society?

[Kimarhi]

Point being neither side can mass produce thought for the other side.  You have to let people develop their own train of thought on subjects.  You might have a run away train wreck like Afghanistan with those Taliban douchebags and their Al Qaeda affiliates but there are plenty of countries founded with religious values that aren't eating themselves or stopping themselves from progressing as societies. 

USA is a whole lot more progressive now than it was sixty years ago.  It will be better 60 years in the future. 

When people start talking about replacing a whole other group of peoples thought processes just because it doesn't agree with them well that's a pretty hitler like thing to do.  And I say that both ways as somebody who knows religion can be dangerous more than most.  A more educated populace overall would definitely help.

My main point is that so many non religious people want to swing the thought hammer and change everybody's opinion on religion because it doesn't suit them.  That's pretty much the same stance a fundamentalist would take against the non religious.  But people don't see themselves as anti religious fundamentalist.  They see themselves as just anti religious.  I merely want more people to realize this.

If this is NOT the stance you were taking then I apologize.  But it seems to constantly resurface around here about every half dozen pages or so.

I guess my question would be, if you had a magic get rid of religion hammer would you swing it if it made everybody al nice atheist non believer or would you not?

[Sabby]

I guess my question would be, if you had a magic get rid of religion hammer would you swing it if it made everybody al nice atheist non believer or would you not?

Okay, so would I swing the hammer or not? My answer is going to be a little longer then a simple yes or no, but I think it's important to explain myself here. Apologies in advance, but this is not a question I can give a simple yay or nay on.

This is a hypothetical scenario, clearly, and it's not an option in real life, also clearly. I've made my stance on how to handle Religion clear multiple times, so I obviously don't believe it can be simply removed. But in this fantasy scenario, it can. So what you're actually asking me, I assume, is if I would rewire the way people think.

If that is the case, simply rewiring the human mind worldwide would simply dump a population of non-believers into a believers world. It might made a big difference immediately, but it doesn't remove Religion from the world, merely postpones it. There are still ghettos, third world countries, charlatans, swindlers and the mentally lacking.

All me swinging that hammer did was grant us a brief respite from Religion, nothing more.

Now, if swinging the hammer would not only change the human brain but also improve the state of the world to a point where Religion simply doesn't exist in any meaningful form? I will swing the f**k out of that hammer, as it's only skipping ahead to the end result of improving the world anyway. There's no reason not to swing.

TL;DR version? No, I don't want to mindrape the planet to share my doubt, I just want a happier, healthier and more intelligent world.

[Crazy Rich]

My personal beliefs? I'm certainly not atheist (no offence or anything). It just doesn't suit me really. That said I'm not sure where I stand in theism, but that's my own journey for me alone. Over the years I've grown more accepting of the agnostic folks at least, it just makes a lot more sense than atheism to me. True, there no evidence of a God, but when some atheist state that there is no God without evidence of their own, that doesn't exactly make some atheists look any better than their opposition. Agnostics embrace science in it's sincere form, not something that absolutely proves or disproves something, but makes the world knowable for us which is what it's intended for. Plus, to be an atheist in it's most basic meaning is "to be nothing". Might as well call myself an ainvertebrate and promote having a vertebrae to folks like the crayfish.

Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtbp5cTLLjo#

[close]

And Sabby, atheism doesn't really promote rationalization and skepticism that well, a lot of us humans can do those things awesome already without any isms. If anything, science is far a greater representation of rationalization and skepticism than atheism.

[Sabby]

And Sabby, atheism doesn't really promote rationalization and skepticism that well, a lot of us humans can do those things awesome already without any isms. If anything, science is far a greater representation of rationalization and skepticism than atheism.

Please show me where I said Atheism in any way promotes Rationalism. Atheism is merely a lack of belief in a Deity. It is not something that can be pushed or presented. You can be an Atheist and also the dumbest, most gullible moron ever.

There's a reason Atheists who are politically or socially minded have to also strive towards being a Skeptic or Rationalist in order to be effective. Hell, that goes for EVERYONE interested in politics, sociology or science. Point is that he label of Atheist is useless in those situations.

Also...

Plus, to be an atheist in it's most basic meaning is "to be nothing".

Lots of people throw this around, and I'd like to know why you think this.

[Crazy Rich]

Could of swore I read that somewhere, it's gone now.

Plus, to be an atheist in it's most basic meaning is "to be nothing".

Lots of people throw this around, and I'd like to know why you think this.

That's what the a in atheism means, as opposed to theism.

[Kimarhi]

I guess my question would be, if you had a magic get rid of religion hammer would you swing it if it made everybody al nice atheist non believer or would you not?

Okay, so would I swing the hammer or not? My answer is going to be a little longer then a simple yes or no, but I think it's important to explain myself here. Apologies in advance, but this is not a question I can give a simple yay or nay on.

This is a hypothetical scenario, clearly, and it's not an option in real life, also clearly. I've made my stance on how to handle Religion clear multiple times, so I obviously don't believe it can be simply removed. But in this fantasy scenario, it can. So what you're actually asking me, I assume, is if I would rewire the way people think.

If that is the case, simply rewiring the human mind worldwide would simply dump a population of non-believers into a believers world. It might made a big difference immediately, but it doesn't remove Religion from the world, merely postpones it. There are still ghettos, third world countries, charlatans, swindlers and the mentally lacking.

All me swinging that hammer did was grant us a brief respite from Religion, nothing more.

Now, if swinging the hammer would not only change the human brain but also improve the state of the world to a point where Religion simply doesn't exist in any meaningful form? I will swing the f**k out of that hammer, as it's only skipping ahead to the end result of improving the world anyway. There's no reason not to swing.

TL;DR version? No, I don't want to mindrape the planet to share my doubt, I just want a happier, healthier and more intelligent world.

I read the whole thing.  I deem you not in the non religious mind rape for a better world category. 

[Sabby]

That's what the a in atheism means, as opposed to theism.

Yes, Atheists don't believe in a Deity. This is something that must be restated every few pages, it seems. What of it? I'm not seeing how "Oh, Yahweh? Seems unlikely" leads to a comparable worship of nothingness. Please, explain to me how it does.

[Crazy Rich]

Point being neither side can mass produce thought for the other side.  You have to let people develop their own train of thought on subjects.

Thing I've learned that when it comes to religion and non-religion is that there is no single truth. It's up to the individual and the individual alone to decide what they chose for themselves that makes them happy. Some people go from Christian to atheist, I've heard of people being raised agnostic becoming Christian (Bruce Cockburn). Different horses for different courses.

That's what the a in atheism means, as opposed to theism.

Yes, Atheists don't believe in a Deity. This is something that must be restated every few pages, it seems. What of it? I'm not seeing how "Oh, Yahweh? Seems unlikely" leads to a comparable worship of nothingness. Please, explain to me how it does.

It's merely a choice of words - nothing, not that, ain't this, am not that. Take your pick.

Chill.

[Sabby]

Point being neither side can mass produce thought for the other side.  You have to let people develop their own train of thought on subjects.

Thing I've learned that when it comes to religion and non-religion is that there is no single truth. It's up to the individual and the individual alone to decide what they chose for themselves that makes them happy. Some people go from Christian to atheist, I've heard of people being raised agnostic becoming Christian (Bruce Cockburn). Different horses for different courses.

That's what the a in atheism means, as opposed to theism.

Yes, Atheists don't believe in a Deity. This is something that must be restated every few pages, it seems. What of it? I'm not seeing how "Oh, Yahweh? Seems unlikely" leads to a comparable worship of nothingness. Please, explain to me how it does.

It's merely a choice of words - nothing, not that, ain't this, am not that. Take your pick.

Chill.

I am chill, I'm merely asking you to explain yourself. You claimed that Atheism was a belief of nothing. Please explain why you think that.

Do you consider those that reject String Theory to also be believers of Nothing?