How is AVP-R "going back to the roots"?

[Space Disc Jockey]

Has anyone here seen the movie The Hidden?  It's a great cult sci-fi action movie from the 80s about a cop and an alien (posing as a human) tracking another evil alien in LA.

Anyway, there's a scene in the film where the evil alien (in human form) regurgitates a parasitic alien into someone else's mouth in a hospital.

I wonder if that's where they got the idea from.

Yes, that's EXACTLY what I thought, when I heard about this regurgitation method the first time and in fact, I mentioned that film in that New Reproduction thread.

So, if that is to be applied to this film, is this idea new to sci-fi? Of course not.

Is it new to the Alien franchise? Yes. In a way.

Is it necessary and "cheap"?  Well, you interpret that. It might not be a totally, original, but it's an idea that can explain things and it works as an "Alien" characteristic.

I think of this as more of the adult Alien version of the face-hugger method. Does that mean face-huggers are not necessary? No, of course not. They are born MAINLY for mass production of the Aliens. The eggs/facehuggers are meant for mass production, but can also be used whenever reproduction is needed, in the case if there is only one Alien warrior.

So, if the Queen can't lay eggs, how is she supposed to keep the reproducion going? Egg-morphing?

The problem is this new regurgitation idea sounds like it came from one of those gimmicky film makers, not a visionary.

Look, I'm a big fan of Cameron and I don't think his idea of a Alien colony/hive was a bad idea at all. It was a great idea. However, when he did that, he immediately turned the Alien species into something like a bug/insect. Yes, the Aliens appear to have insect qualities, but does that mean they should've been treated like an insect species?

Yes, the idea of a Queen regurgitating can sound like a silly idea, since we have not seen her do that before. It's probably not that much different, than what a face-hugger does.

I understand what you guys are talking about, but I think once we see the film, maybe all of this worry might go away, or at least, we will have a better understanding of it.

This movie is not exactly Cameron's "ALIENS", set on Earth. In fact, I think that would be sort of boring to see another Queen laying a bunch of eggs. We have seen enough of that.

It may sound "gimmicky", but if it works and looks ok on film, then maybe it can be accepted.

I won't reserve final judgment, until I see it myself.

The regurgitation idea is not THAT far from a characteristic of an Alien/insect anyway. Sure, it's a sci-fi idea that has been done before, but if it looks different in this film, then say...The Hidden...then cool.

If you are asking for a totally, new original, "visionary" idea for this franchise, then maybe this idea isn't supposed to be one. No, it's not something totally new to film, like face-hugging or chestbursting. I agree with that. It's not something revolutionary. At least it's something kind of new to the Alien franchise (even though it sounds like face-hugger type process).

If we are waiting for the next, big Alien revelation, that is totally original and has never been seen before in science-fiction...I guess we will have to wait for Alien 5 and maybe there is a writer/director out there who has that BIG, revolutionary idea.

How about we start a thread for us to come up with new Alien cycle/Alien characterstics? We can exchange ideas and try think of new Alien ideas.

[Robotpo]

Oh, damn, I missed getting to argue with Colin. All well, I'll get him next time...

About the molting thing, I still don't get it; why didn't the alien on the Nostromo or Fiorina 161 begin turning into a queen? Because by Colin's logic, anytime an alien finds itself in an environment with no means to reproduce, it transforms into a queen in order to make egges/create a hive. So all single aliens should have begun this process too, but didn't. And what about the two warriors apparently born out of the Bensons? Wouldn't that affect the PredAlien's life cycle? What do the aliens do if there's more than one? How do they decide who becomes Queen, do they draw lots?

BTW, I notice he didn't really address any of my comments from the first page...

[Anomaly]

Look, I'm a big fan of Cameron and I don't think his idea of a Alien colony/hive was a bad idea at all. It was a great idea. However, when he did that, he immediately turned the Alien species into something like a bug/insect. Yes, the Aliens appear to have insect qualities, but does that mean they should've been treated like an insect species?

Those are grounding tactics. Cameron also made the walker forklifts somewhat alien but very much like a forklift, he made the marines very much like vietnam era. He uses greedy companies. We can relate to this. He uses things that strike a familiar chord. Those are the films that stick in your head when done well. Keeps it all from floating off into space if you will.

[SM]

BTW, I notice he didn't really address any of my comments from the first page...

There's a lot of comments he didn't (or couldn't) address.

So, if the Queen can't lay eggs, how is she supposed to keep the reproducion going?

If she can't lay eggs she wouldn't be called a "Queen".

[bobcunk]

maby the vomiting thing is the first stage of egg morphing?

[SM]

Unless S1 and S2 have been frantically reshooting and slapping each other saying "I told you this would suck!", "Don't look at me it was your idea!", "My idea?  It was your idea!"  etc. then I'd say, not.

[echobbase79]

maby the vomiting thing is the first stage of egg morphing?

I was thinking the same thing. He did say there are multiple reproduction methods with this new Queen.

[ElderPredator]

maby the vomiting thing is the first stage of egg morphing?

I was thinking the same thing. He did say there are multiple reproduction methods with this new Queen.

I thought that a long time ago, It could be though I don't think it is.

[Robotpo]

Except the Nostromo alien could egg-morph without vomiting, and wasn't a queen...

[That Yellow Alien]

We don't know how it egg morphs, so you can't say it did it without vomiting.

[Robotpo]

Okay, but why does Chet have to molt into a queen in order to "barf and birth," or whatever, but the original alien could do it as a drone?

[SiL]

Chet barfs embryos that pop out of the victim's chest.

The first Alien turned them into eggs.

Totally different.

[That Yellow Alien]

All I can say is clearly, from Colin's comments here, the film has some surprises (whether good or not we shall see). I really can't give any answers until I see the film. I'm not even sure exactly what regurgitation does, because Colin has hinted at it having multiple purposes. He said there will be many facehuggers, hinting as some form of egg morphing. Did he say Chet vomits embryos specifically? If someone can find a direct quote, that'd be great. I can't say anything until I see it.

[Space Disc Jockey]

I think there have been enough Alien films that have followed "rules" and it's time we get something new, but at the same time, keep those rules.

What?  You want to ditch the rules, but still keep them?

I knew I would get this reponse. I probably made that sound wrong, but what I meant was that we saw enough Queen laying egg scenarios. We can still have that idea of a full-grown Queen laying eggs, but in this movie and the situation, it doesn't apply.

And yes, Newborn was a new cycle, one that was totally meant for the purposes of that film. It's not a normal lifecycle, and so it really shouldn't apply to this conversation, other than the fact the Queen may be capable of having multiple cycles....hmmm.

I'm just saying, besides the Newborn, that in terms of the Aliens reproducing, we have not seen that much change or anything new for us to see. Does there need to be more to see? Well, I guess according to some here...no. There have been enough movies to establish everything and nothing else is possible.

BTW, what I meant by that "So, if the Queen can't lay eggs, how is she supposed to keep the reproduction going?" question was in regards to a Queen that was too young to have an egg sac and produce the eggs then.

Are you implying the Queen can lay eggs, without an egg sac? Is that what Alien 3 hinted at? Did the Queen in Resurrection use an egg sac to produce the eggs?

How is this movie breaking ANY rules, if the situation is not the same? This isn't a full-grown Queen. This is a Queen growing and starting from scratch. And no, this is not the same situation as Alien Resurrection.

I'm not sure how to respond to this because I'm not sure you've actually seen all the Alien films.

Yes. I have seen ALL the films. MANY times. What did I say in that quote that wasn't true or accurate?
The Queen in Aliens, was only seen...full-grown/producing eggs from an egg sac.

The Queen in Resurrection grew in captivity and produced eggs, before changing cycles. Now, did she use a egg sac? I don't know. We never saw it, but does that mean it didn't happen? Interpret. It took her days to produce, so she could've been full-grown, by that time.

Those are grounding tactics. Cameron also made the walker forklifts somewhat alien but very much like a forklift, he made the marines very much like vietnam era. He uses greedy companies. We can relate to this. He uses things that strike a familiar chord. Those are the films that stick in your head when done well. Keeps it all from floating off into space if you will.

Yep. I totally agree and understand what Cameron was going for and he succeeded. I had no problems with how he handled the film. I respect everything he thought of. No faults. That was his idea of how the Aliens should be and now, everything has been based off of that (obviously), which makes total sense.

So, because what he introduced, the Strauses can't add onto that? They can't share their ideas too? Their ideas are different. Maybe that regurgitation method is nothing totally original, but at least it's something new to the Queen's survival and something that could fit as an Alien characteristic.

From now on, if anything new is introduced to the Aliens...cycle or characteristics...are we hate to hate it right away? How can anything new be accepted?

Sil,

I have not read that thread in a long time. I gave up on it. If Colin said anything that I didn't get to read, then I will have to go back....


Anyway, I'm done talking about this. I'm not trying to convince people to 100% like the new method, but at least be more open to it, or give it a chance. If it looks crappy and doesn't work in AVP-R, then the filmmakers, obviously, failed.

[RidgeTop]

yeah you are right, people dont know the whole story behind it yet, they should wait until they see the film.