Reproduction Method Official

[YutaniDitch]

One, i said it before and i'll say it again....if a Queen had this not like a scientist would go walze in on the Queen and let her puke in his mouth...it did take a while for her to start egg laying maybe its because she was in this stage...

Second reasion is that this is an Alien transforming into a Queen not a natural one

Third thing is if anything this makes Aliens more adaptable more alien and more frightning and more of the perfect organism people claim it is

So, in 350 years time, with scanning technology already available and perfected in Alien WITHOUT any 'hands-on' scientist interference, they could not scan the Queen and learn her morphology eyes-only, and lear  her reproductory organs were different from one cycle to the other...?

How did they know she was ready to lay eggs in a 'couple of days, maybe less' then...?

Second, don't use AVPR notions that have no basis outside AVPR...Because they are departures from the established Queen RC in vogue since 1986... and because they are the arguments targeted here, not usable as evidence...We are talking about MOVIE CANON, namely what precedes AVPR...

Third, it was only Ash who called it a 'perfect organism'... And he did not know how it reproduced... so he was talking about something eltirely different...We already know it is afraid of fire... It's skin is not impenetrable to Predator and human weaponry... not even a simple bullet...

And its 'Alien' nature does not mean you can come up with the craziest idea you can think of, since we all know that everything has to have a scientifical or natural basis to start from, otherwise it will be far too farfetched to make people get involved with it, let alone believe it could exist...

Even Superman has a human side that is clearly what makes it memorable and identifiable...therefore still existing today...If he was like Martian Manhunter, it would have been an entirely different story...

Things need to have a credibility, even in Sci-fi genre, because otherwise people will be less inclined to believe that thing could actually exist out there or whatever is going on onscreen...

NO creature has 3 reproductory cycles, or better yet, three distinct way of reproducing... especially two of them so anatomically unviable...

Bees don't change reproductory cycles unless there is a very good, natural reason...

What is the reason why a Queen would 'morph' with a Predator...?

Why would it have a preliminary RC, not having even reached full maturity yet..? She only started to lay eggs as a full grown adult, and what real, credible circumstances could 'force' a Queen to change her RC...? It is not like she could decide on it on a whim, but rather Nature...

Of course, there are the movies that present far more viable evidence...

And AR alone is the key to find our way through the BS in Colin's new RC 'threw up' in AVPR...

Reviewers will pick this up, I'm sure, as hardcore fans are doing now, and people who will see an AVP movie have to be fans of both... So I don't think Colin has antecipated the feedback about the RC, hence why he is flimsily trying to convince us this concept will LOOK better on film...

You can come up with all the possible ways to go about it... you still need to explain that in terms of canon, namely why AR clearly stated there is no RC before the egg-laying, and now there is... That is canon...

IF AR did not specifically said there was no RC before the Egg-laying one, I would not like the MO, but would accept the possibility of it... But there is the Gediman monologue that clearly makes this a made-up, bogus RC just to justify lack of means to make a Queen and a Predalien in seperate beings...

[Spidey3121]

Some of the core ideas behind Resurrection i thought were very good. Cloning Ripley, trying to "educate" the Xeno's, + showing the inhumanity of the Human Race (clones 1-7) were quality ideas but it was done in such a poor way that it was just cringe-worthy + very hard to watch.

The new re-production method does not disrespect the original films, at least not in my mind. Just b/c the idea hasn't been done before does not mean it is disrespectful. I buy into the logic behind the new re-productive system so i have no quarrel with it.

[JeremyPack]

Took me three days to get through--but I read all 96 pages.  You guys are really fired up about this!  Couple of points:

A lot of trashing Colin and Greg for the idea, but I think it's important to remember they were the directors, not the writers.  If you're going to blame someone for the alternative impregnation idea, blame Salerno, (or whatever script doctor injected it into the story.)  Now, a lot of you are going to say:  "But they're the DIRECTORS, they could have refused to film it."  Uh, okay--clearly you don't understand the Hollywood process.  This is their first film.  How much creative control are they really going to be able to exercise?  You really think Fox, having greenlit the script as is, are going to roll over for a couple of new guys because they don't like something in the script.  Aside from that, directors define the way shots are staged, how actors deliver lines, how the film is cut together--they don't have much control over the actual script.

And with regards to canon:  
*  We're talking about a predator/alien hybrid.  We haven't seen it before so who's to say what it can and can't do--whether it can morph into a queen or not.  For all we know, male predators undergo parthenogenesis in the absence of a female.  They are reptilian looking, after all.  This is a common phenomenon amongst reptilian creatures.  
*  The new impregnation process, I'll admit, doesn't seem too promising in terms of "cool," but because we're talking about a new creature, it in fact does NOT negate the other options shown in previous films.  Previously, we were talking about aliens hybridized with human DNA...if you can suspend disbelief long enough to accept that there is a hostile alien that bleeds acid and reproduces inside a living human host, you can surmise that this is the way the life-cycle is expressed in that genetic context.

Personally, I think they needed a way to create lots of aliens without resorting to queens, eggs, and facehuggers (probably due to screen-time restraints, rather than budgetary ones) and opted for this method so that they could combine the predalien with the queen to create a multi-purpose "boss."  (Refer to Colin's "it serves the same purpose" comment.)  Now whether they sacrificed the exposition needed to set up the standard life-cycle for non-fans in favor of crap you can see on the WB any night of the week is a topic still up for debate.

I'm not going to get too worked up about this unless it looks like trash.  If it's a fun film, I'm cool with it.  At the end of the day, it's not Alien 5.  If that ever happens, let's pray to God the person who writes it knows what they're doing...

PS:  I LOVE this board!!  The debates get really, really good.  95% intelligent--soooo rare on the internet.

[That Yellow Alien]

The thing is, there is no reason a Predalien should have any more abilities than a human-born Alien. If it were like that, than human Aliens should have penises and f**k each other.

[lucan khan]

The idea that the Alien would take traits from the host was an idea that the Alien creators thought up.

It was an idea prevelant even in the initial Starbeast scripts (which was the precursor of Alien).  Fincher didn't think that up in Alien 3.

In Aliens, we'd already seen the eggs, and knew they had to come from somewhere.  With Scott leaving out the crew turning into egg scene in the original movie, Cameron was just filling in the blanks. 

Neither director/writing team just came up with stuff out of thin air, both ideas were based on concepts scene in the original movie.  Maybe less so with Aliens, but then again, the Aliens logic made perfect sense. 

Haven't seen what lays the eggs before in the first movie.   Hmmmm.

wells whos to say that the original idea was for the drones to lay the eggs, giger came up with the alien right? well he sure as hell had nothing to do with teh queen because he was completely cut out from aliens, the put is things have been added in before so why get so worked up about this

Wrong.  Dan O' Bannon thought the Alien up.  It was giger that came up with the designs.

Dan O' Bannon and the other writers are thanked every film  for their contribution of the Alien universe to the rest of the series.  Technically aside from the Ripley character, the writers of the original were left out of the sequel too, and Cameron could've done any number of drastic things to the Alien.

Yet the only thing he really changed was the addition of numerous aliens, and the queen.  I feel that Cameron is less at fault than the Strause brothers are because of the simple fact we SEE thousands of eggs in the derelict chamber, and the fact that Scott omitted the egging process scene in the original.

It was a logical progression.  People wanted to know where the eggs came from.  Cameron showed them.

Nobody wanted to know about the predalien having protector aliens because there was no evidence of them in previous films.  Nobody looking at the first few movies could be like: "Hmm, wonder where those protector aliens came from?" Because no such thing existed.

The closest thing to it: The one facehugger that infects two host in Alien 3, and you still can't convince everybody that there wasn't two facehuggers in that movie.

how can you say the they queen doesnt have protectors, alien 3? it was never confirmed how eggs were on the saluco any way,

and this is gap filling, aliens arent pokemon they dont just sudden go from something small and simple turn white and evolve into a final state, this is just filling the gap between young alien and fully grown queen, if the queens weve seen are actually fully grown,

[Spidey3121]

Haven't we determined the Predalien was not born a Queen? I was under the impression the Predalien was not born a queen but as a dominant Drone Alien was "morphing" into a Queen or w/e you want to call it. If this is the case than what is said in Alien Resurrection wouldn't apply in this case. A:R deals with a born Queen while here we have a Drone "morphing" into a Queen alien.

[Bishop2]

The thing is, there is no reason a Predalien should have any more abilities than a human-born Alien. If it were like that, than human Aliens should have penises and f**k each other.

It has more abilities because it's a young queen, not because Predators give the aliens some kind of magic regurgitating power handed down genetically.

But the idea of host attributes being passed on has existed since Alien 3.

[Major Alan Schaefer]

In AR, i'm so sure they's walze up to Ripley 8 and say.... "Isen't this awesome the Queen can do this." that's if they did that..second they didn't care about how she reproduced their greedy miltary perosnal who wanted it as a weapon all they wanted is for her to lay eggs.

Like i said before besides AR's locked up Queen we've never seen a young Queen or a alien transforming to a Queen..

now you may say if they could do this why didn't Alien's Alien do it. my best guess lack of time and who says it wasen't? Lameburt was raped acording to Ridley their would have been more aliens on board after. Third, if Ash said it was a perfect organism that means were supposed to say it is because it is. it adapts it changes when it needs it. but people like you want it simple and can't take the concept of something not like what we have on Earth...

[That Yellow Alien]

The thing is, there is no reason a Predalien should have any more abilities than a human-born Alien. If it were like that, than human Aliens should have penises and f**k each other.

It has more abilities because it's a young queen, not because Predators give the aliens some kind of magic regurgitating power handed down genetically.

But the idea of host attributes being passed on has existed since Alien 3.

Well, when I said that, I was more responding to the people who say ,"It's a Predalien, we haven't see this kind of Alien yet, who knows what it can do." That is a dumb explanation as to why the Predalien does what it does.

[YutaniDitch]

So we already know the alien can spit acid.  Obviously, this was seen in Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection.  Now apparently it can upchuck an embryo of some kind.  Theory: Perhaps the ability to spit (seemingly diluted) acid seen in regular aliens is actually the redundant remnant of the embryo-upchuck ability seen in a very young queen.

(I can't really call this "regurgitation" because you can really only regurgitate something you've ingested... and I'm assuming the young queen isn't laying babies, then eating them, and THEN vomiting them back out into her hosts... unless that's exactly what she's doing and I missed something here.)

Next question becomes "How many days does this maturation take?"  I mean, we can probably assume in Resurrection that the queen doesn't take too long to become an adult... let's say it's a week at most.  So how old is this predalien?  Either this isn't the same one from the first film (seems unlikely since they reportedly rebuilt Scar's altar) or this is all taking place VERY shortly after the first film, a matter of a couple of days.  However, I don't know if Colin's told us that this is actually taking place right now in 2007, which... seriously screws up the whole timeline.  No way is this queen still "young" after three years of developing. Not possible, unless you're crazy enough to think that three years pass between the opening scene in Resurrection where Ripley #8 is on the operating table... and the scene where she's getting tested on cherries and gloves. 

BUT!  Perhaps the Predators could freeze the young queen in stasis during those interim years... they've already shown the ability to freeze a queen in the first AVP, albeit crudely.

Well, he spit ACID, so that is off... And the 'remnant feature' theory is not evidence because we know, of course, it wasn't ever contemplated before Colin devised it...  Or Shane...

So trying to 'squeeze' it in was what Colin did and he ended up doing a very poor job at it...

Because arguably you can, but in terms of the original Alien series, you definitely can't...

This is the most documented thing on Alien movies, and AR nailed it shut, claiming that no other cycle exists before the adult Queen RC so extensively showed...

So, this only exists in Colin and/or Shane's mind...and Fox apparently is as ignorant of continuity as they are...

And the fact that an AVP movie, a lesser movie than the originals, is arrogantly changing something credible into something totally farfetched and out-of-continuity, means this has reached the bottom...

There is a reason why they were keeping it a secret... because they knew this would motivate the 100 pages and the anger, frustration, sadeness, and bitterness fans have rightfully showed...

This is like rendering Batman gay... You can't expect not having aggressive feedback if you decide to change icons radically...

This was all a money issue... We would be having a seperate Queen and Predalien if Fox had goven the Bros. more money... They didn't, hence why we have this...

Plain and simple...

[lucan khan]

the point is, we dont know every thing about the alien, its a fictional creature any way, so "it cant do that" doesnt apply, maybe weve never seen it in any off the other films is because it wasnt successful, survival of the fittest and all, the gene pool of aliens we are seeing are not the ones on LV426. so why should they be the same these aliens quite possibly die and perhapes there RC is why, it happens in  the natural world

[Major Alan Schaefer]

Personally no matter what they did i wanted no Queen in this so the old girl wouldn't become boring

[Kimarhi]

The idea that the Alien would take traits from the host was an idea that the Alien creators thought up.

It was an idea prevelant even in the initial Starbeast scripts (which was the precursor of Alien).  Fincher didn't think that up in Alien 3.

In Aliens, we'd already seen the eggs, and knew they had to come from somewhere.  With Scott leaving out the crew turning into egg scene in the original movie, Cameron was just filling in the blanks. 

Neither director/writing team just came up with stuff out of thin air, both ideas were based on concepts scene in the original movie.  Maybe less so with Aliens, but then again, the Aliens logic made perfect sense. 

Haven't seen what lays the eggs before in the first movie.   Hmmmm.

wells whos to say that the original idea was for the drones to lay the eggs, giger came up with the alien right? well he sure as hell had nothing to do with teh queen because he was completely cut out from aliens, the put is things have been added in before so why get so worked up about this

Wrong.  Dan O' Bannon thought the Alien up.  It was giger that came up with the designs.

Dan O' Bannon and the other writers are thanked every film  for their contribution of the Alien universe to the rest of the series.  Technically aside from the Ripley character, the writers of the original were left out of the sequel too, and Cameron could've done any number of drastic things to the Alien.

Yet the only thing he really changed was the addition of numerous aliens, and the queen.  I feel that Cameron is less at fault than the Strause brothers are because of the simple fact we SEE thousands of eggs in the derelict chamber, and the fact that Scott omitted the egging process scene in the original.

It was a logical progression.  People wanted to know where the eggs came from.  Cameron showed them.

Nobody wanted to know about the predalien having protector aliens because there was no evidence of them in previous films.  Nobody looking at the first few movies could be like: "Hmm, wonder where those protector aliens came from?" Because no such thing existed.

The closest thing to it: The one facehugger that infects two host in Alien 3, and you still can't convince everybody that there wasn't two facehuggers in that movie.

how can you say the they queen doesnt have protectors, alien 3? it was never confirmed how eggs were on the saluco any way,

and this is gap filling, aliens arent pokemon they dont just sudden go from something small and simple turn white and evolve into a final state, this is just filling the gap between young alien and fully grown queen, if the queens weve seen are actually fully grown,

How can I say the queen doesn't have protectors?  Because none were shown.  The only ones left in the hive are regular aliens that do what regular aliens do.

The establishing shot of the egg onboard the Sulaco, with the total disregard of showing others would seem to indicate to me that there was only one.

Gap filling could be a good thing.  Or a ridiculous one. I think we all agree that there is a time between chestburster and queen that the creature isn't the same size and possesses different attributes than when its growing.  But the additions of abilities during this stage could become whacky in a very short order.

To me its less about the loogy hocking, and more along the current trend of adding "cool" things.  Keep adding abilities and reproductive cycles and it'll just become corny.  Nobody wants to see the predalien have detachable heat seaking inner mouths or anything like that.  ANd it especially becomes corny when you have a superpowered alien monstrosity................and it loses.

If the alien isn't going to become any more powerful with the addition of new abilities, why bother adding them in the first place.

[Major Alan Schaefer]

How do you know Chet looses completely? 

[lucan khan]

The idea that the Alien would take traits from the host was an idea that the Alien creators thought up.

It was an idea prevelant even in the initial Starbeast scripts (which was the precursor of Alien).  Fincher didn't think that up in Alien 3.

In Aliens, we'd already seen the eggs, and knew they had to come from somewhere.  With Scott leaving out the crew turning into egg scene in the original movie, Cameron was just filling in the blanks. 

Neither director/writing team just came up with stuff out of thin air, both ideas were based on concepts scene in the original movie.  Maybe less so with Aliens, but then again, the Aliens logic made perfect sense. 

Haven't seen what lays the eggs before in the first movie.   Hmmmm.

wells whos to say that the original idea was for the drones to lay the eggs, giger came up with the alien right? well he sure as hell had nothing to do with teh queen because he was completely cut out from aliens, the put is things have been added in before so why get so worked up about this

Wrong.  Dan O' Bannon thought the Alien up.  It was giger that came up with the designs.

Dan O' Bannon and the other writers are thanked every film  for their contribution of the Alien universe to the rest of the series.  Technically aside from the Ripley character, the writers of the original were left out of the sequel too, and Cameron could've done any number of drastic things to the Alien.

Yet the only thing he really changed was the addition of numerous aliens, and the queen.  I feel that Cameron is less at fault than the Strause brothers are because of the simple fact we SEE thousands of eggs in the derelict chamber, and the fact that Scott omitted the egging process scene in the original.

It was a logical progression.  People wanted to know where the eggs came from.  Cameron showed them.

Nobody wanted to know about the predalien having protector aliens because there was no evidence of them in previous films.  Nobody looking at the first few movies could be like: "Hmm, wonder where those protector aliens came from?" Because no such thing existed.

The closest thing to it: The one facehugger that infects two host in Alien 3, and you still can't convince everybody that there wasn't two facehuggers in that movie.

how can you say the they queen doesnt have protectors, alien 3? it was never confirmed how eggs were on the saluco any way,

and this is gap filling, aliens arent pokemon they dont just sudden go from something small and simple turn white and evolve into a final state, this is just filling the gap between young alien and fully grown queen, if the queens weve seen are actually fully grown,

How can I say the queen doesn't have protectors?  Because none were shown.  The only ones left in the hive are regular aliens that do what regular aliens do.

alien 3