Do you care about canon?

[E. Shaw]

I actually like a loose canon.

[Corporal Hicks]

Just to pick on you both here as this is the main reason I find discussing canon frustrating within fan communities.

Voted No, but the answer is more complicated than that. In truth, I only see Alien, Aliens and Alien 3 as "immutable" canon (or very close to it). Everything else is as canon as I need it to be for whatever story or thought I'm currently entertaining, but can be dropped just as fast. Whether it happens to be "official" or not is quite immaterial to me, whether I'm including or excluding a given piece in a given moment.

Does that mean I can't enjoy non-canon stories? Not at all! On the contrary, some of the EU stories are great fun! The latest titan books seem to follow their own canon which includes recent games, and they tie in to each other nicely. But it's not *prime* canon, and it's important to differentiate between the two. Why? Because whilst these stories are fun, oversaturation of content, with too many chefs fingers in the pie can also break worlds.

Canon isn't what we see it as though. There is no "immutable" canon or "prime" canon because that's not something we as a fandom define. In certain regards, the films will and have often disregarded the EU because that's a nature of licensed property but the EU is and can still be considered "canon" by the powers that be. Which very much became the case following the Titan relaunch.

So my question isn't about what you consider canon because that's not a decision the fandom gets to make. It's why do you care what Fox/Studios/Disney considers as canon?

(hopefully that doesn't come across as being harsh there, very much not my intention but you know tone and the internet so explaining my intent there)

it can be redefined arbitrarily that it's really neither here nor there.

Very funny to me that Titan and Marvel are the two ongoing branches of EU, but Titan stuff acknowledges Dark Horse characters and (to my knowledge) nothing from the current crop of Marvel comics. Meanwhile on the Predator side of things, the Marvel comics seemingly are bringing back Dark Horse characters/storylines?

Just to throw it out there - Marvel's Alien has made some references to the Dark Horse side of things too. Nothing as substantial as revisiting characters though. 

[oduodu]

"It's why do you care what Fox/Studios/Disney considers as canon? "

i don t care as  long as i can differentiate between what is  "what Fox/Studios/Disney considers as canon?" and what isn t.

i have my head canon

AND

i have my knowledge on original intentions/ideas at the theatrical release(s) time (for all the movies)

AND

how subsequent movies and other licensed media may have changed that.

the prequels even if canon doesn t change my theatrical realease take of alien.

it makes it impossable to discuss things  if you can t differentiate between those.



corporal sorry . your question was aimed at those who do care.

[Acid_Reign161]

So my question isn't about what you consider canon because that's not a decision the fandom gets to make. It's why do you care what Fox/Studios/Disney considers as canon?

(hopefully that doesn't come across as being harsh there, very much not my intention but you know tone and the internet so explaining my intent there)

Ahh! I see; well, I guess I care what Fox/Studios/Disney considers canon, as even if I as a fan don't agree with or accept that canon, and roll with personal head canon instead, the fact is a wrong decision can be damaging. Imagine if you will, a world where the next Alien movie follows Alien 3 and stars Micheal Biehn as Hicks due to Colonial Marines, cementing the game as 'fact'. Sure you could ignore the game if you don't like it, but if the movie happens to be good and directly references it in multiple ways, you then have to either accept that the game happened, or ignore all future sequels that follow. Or if they say "AvPR is 100% canon to Alien" and starts adding Predators to our alien stories. Or picture if you will, someone who really dislikes the prequels, who ignores them like they never happened, happy with the original trilogy, but wants more Marine content, buys Fireteam Elite to find the prequels /pathogen pretty integral to the story. In these type of situations, I don't care what they CLAIM is canon so much, it's more that in an extreme case, a wrong call can have an undesirable butterfly effect that affects everything else. (If that makes sense?)

And regarding my 'prime canon' comments, just to put that in perspective, I do strongly believe in primary and secondary canon, even within the studios; the titan books may currently be considered canon by the powers that be, but then I'm sure 'Earth Hive' - 'Female War' were the same prior to Alien 3. When you deal with multiple conflicting timelines, I don't think it's as black and white as 'what they say is canon' (there are things that can be overwritten in a heartbeat without a second thought, and some things that will always be a staple; nobody is ever going to say "Alien and Aliens never happened!" For example); How would you determine what the studios consider canon in the 'Halloween' series? Halloween 1-6? Halloween 1, 2, H20 and Resurrection? Or Halloween 1, Kills and Ends? We know what they are currently promoting , but even they made it clear it was 'alternate events'. Have we even had an official word on what Fox/Disney considers canon in the Alien Universe, beyond some off-hand comments at the time of sales of 'Out of the Shadows' and during the promotion of 'Colonial Marines'? 😊 (I ask as I genuinely don't know) I'm guessing the upcoming encyclopaedia may shed some light? I'd like to think there's zero AvP content in there lol, and that novels and comics were kept out of it. 😅

(And all good regarding post tone! 😃👍)

[Nightmare Asylum]

I'm guessing the upcoming encyclopaedia may shed some light? I'd like to think there's zero AvP content in there lol, and that novels and comics were kept out of it. 😅

From what I understand, that encyclopedia will be covering all six currently released films (no Romulus, though, despite the book's numerous delays now setting its release for after Romulus), with no mention of anything AVP or EU.

[Acid_Reign161]

I'm guessing the upcoming encyclopaedia may shed some light? I'd like to think there's zero AvP content in there lol, and that novels and comics were kept out of it. 😅

From what I understand, that encyclopedia will be covering all six currently released films (no Romulus, though, despite the book's numerous delays now setting its release for after Romulus), with no mention of anything AVP or EU.

That's a shame regarding Romulus, but good news on the EU front. I guess perhaps this is indication of what is officially considered canon. I wonder how they consider Isolation at this point, being only 5 years apart from Romulus.

[Corporal Hicks]

Imagine if you will, a world where the next Alien movie follows Alien 3 and stars Micheal Biehn as Hicks due to Colonial Marines, cementing the game as 'fact'. Sure you could ignore the game if you don't like it, but if the movie happens to be good and directly references it in multiple ways, you then have to either accept that the game happened, or ignore all future sequels that follow

To you, what makes that damaging? Because ACM wasn't good?

Have we even had an official word on what Fox/Disney considers canon in the Alien Universe, beyond some off-hand comments at the time of sales of 'Out of the Shadows' and during the promotion of 'Colonial Marines'? 😊 (I ask as I genuinely don't know)

Which is another reason why I find canon frustrating. You have second hand comments from people like Gaska who wrote Fox's internal bible, or from people like SM, Clara or myself who have worked on projects. And randoms on the internet don't want to believe the words of other randoms on the internet, especially if they offer an opposing comment. Fox doesn't keep a public facing list of what is considered canon, so you have to rely on second hand comments from people who have bumped up against it. But the thing to note is, these studios do have internal franchise bibles or timelines. I assisted - very minutely - on both Alien and Predators.

[BlueMarsalis79]

ACM's not merely bad, it's abhorrent, it came about through embezzlement and it is attached to an alleged sex criminal.

Anything legitimising it I inherently dislike from the word go.

[The Cruentus]

The whole Hicks being alive thing was poorly done, Michael Biehn didn't enjoy his time doing it.

If there is a bible, perhaps they should actually show it completely, even if its always an evolving thing.

[BlueMarsalis79]

I wish to say.

I don't have an issue with a film that ties into the opening of Alien³ inherently, but it must be smart with the retroactive continuity, don't actually have the legacy characters as active players.

[Nightmare Asylum]

I wish to say.

I don't have an issue with a film that ties into the opening of Alien³ inherently, but it must be smart with the retroactive continuity, don't actually have the legacy characters as active players.

So the egg crawling onto the Sulaco from Renaissance Station is valid, then? We should update the "Egg" thread with that new bit of information.

[E. Shaw]

I think once Ripley was no longer the lead, the canon can be loose, allowing a legenderium rather than a strict canon. This is why in some ways I like each recent film has had different lead: Shaw, Daniels, and Cailee's character. It prevents the saga from getting trapped around a singular person or family like The Skywalkers.

[Corporal Hicks]

If there is a bible, perhaps they should actually show it completely, even if its always an evolving thing.

But why? What difference would it make to you?

[The Cruentus]

Because it is good to know the actual official timeline is and what did or did not happen.

[𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔈𝔦𝔤𝔥𝔱𝔥 𝔓𝔞𝔰𝔰𝔢𝔫𝔤𝔢𝔯]

I actually like a loose canon.

A loose canon can be dangerous and unpredictable.