The Rage War: A three part Alien / Predator epic by Tim Lebbon

Started by Perfect-Organism, Nov 18, 2014, 10:44:01 PM

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The Rage War: A three part Alien / Predator epic by Tim Lebbon (Read 239,816 times)

Corporal Hicks

Exactly. Pretty sure Guan and I have talked about this already?

RakaiThwei

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 13, 2015, 04:37:31 PM
Exactly. Pretty sure Guan and I have talked about this already?

I remember him saying that one character said Hashori pointed at herself and said Yautja, albeit in a different way. I must've misread his post or something. Either way... as much as I love the Yautja concept, I think Lebbon should've just used Predators instead. Would've made more sense.

Corporal Hicks

Quote from: RakaiThwei on Nov 13, 2015, 04:44:37 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 13, 2015, 04:37:31 PM
Exactly. Pretty sure Guan and I have talked about this already?

I remember him saying that one character said Hashori pointed at herself and said Yautja, albeit in a different way. I must've misread his post or something. Either way... as much as I love the Yautja concept, I think Lebbon should've just used Predators instead. Would've made more sense.

I thought exactly the same.

The Alien Predator

The Alien Predator

#798
To be perfectly honest, when I first heard about this book, I thought the Predators were going to be some hardcore unstoppable threat that just cuts through humanity like a sharp knife through melting butter.

I imagined them going into human space, "moving away" (I love that they don't have the word "retreat") from an unknown enemy and dragging us into the "Rage War" that they are involved in. I thought it was titled "Rage War" because it's full of rage and has Predators in it. XD

However, when I learned a bit more from Batman, I was beginning to get the impression that humans have finally caught up with the Predators. And let's be honest, as seen in AvP, they haven't changed a lot for thousands of years while we went from Prometheus to Alien Resurrection in just a couple of centuries with lots of changes.

Then a hundred years after Resurrection, we're already shooting plasma rifles and plasma warheads. Is it really a surprise that two centuries after Sea of Sorrows we are wearing molecular adapting battle suits that make even Alcatraz from Crysis kinda blush? (I really got a Nanosuit vibe from those combat suits)

And the bullets, I really like the micro dot full stop sized bullets.

...............

Pew pew!

That's something I never saw in any fiction ever, micro bullets. XD I loved the technological expansions Lebbon explored.

Also, speaking of the whole "focusing too much on humans", from what Batman told us, I too was a bit irked as I was looking forward to seeing the Predator side of things. But once I read the book, I think Lebbon has given us just the right amount of Predator scenes, especially as far as Lilliya and Hashori are concerned but also the Isa Palant sections too.

The thing that I loved with Dr. Palant aka Yautja Woman is that she is a huge Predator fangirl, she is basically the personification of our very own fascination of the Predators which makes us a fan of them in the first place. She is our reach into this universe. So was this other Marine in the VoidLarks who joined solely because she was fascinated with the Yautja culture. I remember Johnny told her "you finally get to meet these damn things that fascinate you so much" as they approach the habitat, and she responds with "I'd really rather not".

Speaking of the space habitat, I loved how the Yautja weren't wearing space suits when outside. They had their masks on, but no big description was given like "their entire body was covered" or something, so I imagined our usual classic half armoured and fully netted Predators in the vacuum. Maybe they're like tardigrades? Who can survive unprotected in space for a short while? The mask helps them breathe at least.

Great review Hicks, while on the topic of overpowered humans. Personally, I kinda liked that, it shows a sign of progress. However, I would've liked to see the threat the Predators presented. Most of the massacres that the Yautja do are merely mentioned as background material, especially when the actual incursion begins, how they attacked ships, colonies, mines, space stations and even space pirate ships. That kinda felt badass as it shows they don't give a damn who they attack. But it'd have been cool to see some of these action sequences first hand.

I did love the VoidLark space battle because while they take out some Yautja ships, the last surviving ship literally stomps the Marine ship with just a burst of lasers. I think the reason for the incompetence in that situation was because they were in the process of fleeing the Fire-Lizards that overran their space habitat and may have been panicking only to be surprised by a human ship nearby.

Imagine you find a pack of hyenas in your room, you quickly grab a gun and run outside only to find one lion waiting for you. Now odds are, you may shoot it or you could completely lose your cool and not react in time.

I think that's what it was like for the retreating Yautja.

Edit: I noticed that Tim Lebbon explored something mentioned in the game manual of AvP 2010.

"We are old, my brother, our race is few and scattered..." - the Predator section of the manual.

In the novel, the Yautja are said to be "scattered across the galaxy" and their populations are very low wherever they're found. Tim put heavy emphasis on the low numbers of the Yautja whenever he got the opportunity.

At one point, Lilliya got confused.

Spoiler
She was escaping the Rage, and she stumbled upon the Zeere-Za, a Yautja warship, and she scanned it for life only to find such a low number of life signs that she assumed humans used synthetics instead of going out to explore by themselves.

Also the Predator ships going into human space were so low in number that it wasn't classed as an "invasion" but an "incursion" (and so I learned a new word thanks to the book).
[close]

Xenomorphine

WTF is a "plasma warhead"? Was it just hand-waved away without explanation? Because plasma is just basically a funky way of saying 'hot air' - and it's famously difficult to get plasma to fire in anything like a straight line.

Microscopic bullets could be interesting, but as shown in Afghanistan/Iraq, smaller ammunition goes through a target at the expense of stopping power, which can be dangerous if an opponent is psychotic enough to charge you.

As for Predators not wearing suits in space, I can only assume that means they don't have, say, a rectum... Remember the Newborn getting its guts sucked out into hard vacuum? It'd be like a really nasty version of that if they do! :laugh:

HuDaFuK

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 14, 2015, 03:52:23 AMWTF is a "plasma warhead"? Was it just hand-waved away without explanation? Because plasma is just basically a funky way of saying 'hot air' - and it's famously difficult to get plasma to fire in anything like a straight line.

Considering one of the Predator's signature weapons is it's Plasma Caster, I don't see why this would be an issue.

Corporal Hicks

Corporal Hicks

#801
I didn't mind humans being powerful. I liked the progression and it makes sense. Just felt like the Predators should have been seen to have put up a better fight. It's a massive shift in the dynamic.

Xenomorphine

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 14, 2015, 08:46:09 AM
Considering one of the Predator's signature weapons is it's Plasma Caster, I don't see why this would be an issue.

It's never been defined on screen what that weapon is. The games aren't exactly a reputable source of scientific accuracy. :) All we can say is that it's some kind of energy-based thing, but not how it functions. If anything, the bolt looks somehow electrical in nature (at least, in the first film - the second has it look more like a flare projectile).

It's like how everyone refers to their suicide weapon as a 'nuclear bomb', when it's clearly something very different to one.

The Alien Predator

The Alien Predator

#803
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Nov 14, 2015, 03:52:23 AM
WTF is a "plasma warhead"? Was it just hand-waved away without explanation? Because plasma is just basically a funky way of saying 'hot air' - and it's famously difficult to get plasma to fire in anything like a straight line.

Microscopic bullets could be interesting, but as shown in Afghanistan/Iraq, smaller ammunition goes through a target at the expense of stopping power, which can be dangerous if an opponent is psychotic enough to charge you.

As for Predators not wearing suits in space, I can only assume that means they don't have, say, a rectum... Remember the Newborn getting its guts sucked out into hard vacuum? It'd be like a really nasty version of that if they do! :laugh:

A plasma warhead was something fired by a human ship at the end of Sea of Sorrows to decimate the entire Xenomorph hive on LV 178. It was said to be more powerful than a nuke and with said blast, would be able to reach low enough to destroy the derelict ship in the mines.

Three of them were fired I think, nuked from orbit, just to be sure...

If you have Sea of Sorrows, feel free to check out the last few chapters for it. They're fired right after everyone's back on the ship.

Regarding the micro-dot bullets, I forgot to mention that they explode once inside you.

You can also program your nano-swarm rounds (different from micro-dot bullets) to slice your opponents or to cover them in a nanobot swarm which explodes all around them. This sent a Predator to its knees in pain and wounded it, but didn't kill it.

I loved the shoulder mounted twin drones each marine carries, they're used for aerial surveillance with multiple spectrums as well as providing covering laser fire. Although one easily got destroyed by a Predator who snuck up to it.

happypred

The dynamic-shift is a bit jarring.

I'm OK with star-faring humans as a credible threat to predators...but Incursion does more than that

Colonial Marines/Excursionists feel like 21st century U.S. soldiers wearing kevlar, toting assault rifles and grenade launchers...in comparison, the predators are 19th century Native Americans armed with Winchesters and hatchets.

The predators are not a convincing threat to human soldiers...that removes a major source of tension.

Also, the way the Yautja keep getting their arms shot off before activating self-destruct...come on Yautja, you ain't stupid...can't you redesign the activation mechanism to simple voice activation via clicking into mask

razeak

razeak

#805
Happrypred nailed it. The predators are just (even if unintentional) portrayed as weak. They're basically Imperial Stormtroopers. They can't hit jack and die a lot. 

Overall the book is pretty good, but the predators just don't resonate as powerful in scenes describing their "onscreen" actions.  7/10

Corporal Hicks

Definitely agree. I really hope Lebbon tries to make the Predator seem more dangerous in the next few novels. The Rage stuff was really interesting though and really carried me through the book. I just wanted to learn more about what they found out there.

The Alien Predator

I honestly am beginning to feel that this whole "they are too weak and we are too powerful" is unjust to the Yautja... I gotta get this off my chest in defence of the Yautja. Sorry for the length.

What you all seem to forget is that the Marines are facing Predator hunters so it's not the same as going to an actual war with them. The book states that the Yautja were never declared an active enemy so we've never had a proper war, this is a "Cold War", it's totally different.

Who do you honestly think is going to win? A hunter with his equivalent of a hunting rifle or a futuristic space marine armed with top notch gear? The Yautja in the beginning weren't expecting to hunt Marines, they came to hunt on a human colony expecting armed colonists no doubt. And they're dangerous enough to have many humans scared shitless of the very mention of a "Yautja" being nearby. And did you all forget that some Marines DIED in the book? As in being killed by ill-prepared Yautja?

The rest will be said in the spoilers because some of it is spoilery and to save some space as I've written a lot of things.

Spoiler
Weyland-Yutani threatens to and I quote "nuke the f**k out of" the Yautja homeworld if they do not make this ceasefire effective. Isa Palant did not translate that last bit because she knew the Yautja wouldn't back down, hell, her saying "I am instructed to tell you that we know where your homeworld is" was far too much information already, and Kalakta says "your elders want war with us", but did Kalakta shit himself?

No, in fact, he warns Isa that the Yautja would be more than happy to end the ceasefire and carry on attacking humans. I'll tell you right now truthfully that if a "technologically superior" enemy tells me that they know where my home is, I'd be quite worried you know? But Yautja didn't give two shits, clearly they must be confident in themselves that they can take on the entire human military industrial complex.

Now I can understand as a Predator fan why you fellows think that humans can be a bit too powerful, but Isa Palant foreshadows to the CEO that she just "saved his life and the lives of his children" by not issuing the nuke threat to Kalakta. For all we know, the Yautja could have a freakin' DEATH STAR.

Do you honestly think the Yautja would throw more hunters at us should an actual war start? What stops them from just nuking the hell out of Earth and other human colonies? Remember the explosion at the end of AvP 2010? That's an ANCIENT PYRAMID older than humanity itself according to the diaries. They could still have such capabilities even in Lebbon's works. Lebbon's Yautja are also older than humanity, Mains thinks the very space habitat he is infiltrating (which was infested with Xenomorphs) could be older than before humans even discovered fire.

The little tease for the second book says we'll be armed with the deadliest weaponry in this team up, I assume it is including the Yautja as well.

This whole Rage attack was a surprise attack and the immediately affected ships were the ones "fleeing", and only a FEW fled, most stayed behind to fight. Remember guys, this is a clan or a small collection of clans that is being attacked here, not the entire race. The Yautja themselves are said to be and I quote "dispersed across the entire galaxy" and Isa's message was sent across the whole Milky Way. More may arrive in future books, and they may be better armed.

And where is this "Space Native Americans" coming from?...

Last time I heard, native Americans never had the ability to disable a marine ship with a burst of laser shots or turn a Rage ship into atoms as Hashori boasts after PWNING Lilliya's ship. Remember that the Rage are more advanced than humanity within the Human Sphere.

I'm sorry, but some of you guys are making your love for the Predators blind you to the actual accomplishments that they make such as improving their stealth to the point of making our best stealth obsolete, or DESIGNING their own cloaking devices, I bet most of us can't even make a SMART PHONE on our own let alone a cloaking device for a personal space ship...

I fully understand it though, Happypred, don't get me wrong, but do note like I said above, it's a single clan or a collection of a few that were AMBUSHED by the Rage. And they're in a position where making quick decisions can be difficult due to the rush of panic.

Most of their technology developed independently of other clans, they make and modify their own ships (as in individuals) so clearly they are incredibly intelligent. What stops a group of Yautja from designing powerful weapons to counter us, should they consider us a huge threat? Remember, each time we reverse engineer something, they IMPROVE that something? If we nicked a Plasma Caster, they might make a version that would utterly shit on the Marines armour for all we know!

Oh and did I forget to say that most ground encounters, the Predators are outnumbered by the Marines? Shamana was pwned by an entire freakin' platoon of uber marines, what'd you expect seriously? And he arrived there with Wendigo after FLEEING the Xenomorphs, it's not like he arrived on a huge war ship adorned with personal military gear or something. And before the DevilDog marines arrived, Wendigo utterly cut through most of the marines before being killed by the leader, who was then killed and trophied by Shamana who in turn got killed by the DevilDogs who eventually arrived.

Johnny and his squad found Yautja in small doses, it's not like they find a whole army of Predators waiting for them all well prepared, no, most are busy fighting the swarms of Aliens (whom EXPLODE after death) and did you forget that badass Predator who nailed Patton to the wall and died valiantly killing a ton of Aliens in the process with just a his weapons? You find his remains mangled among the many dead Aliens and the Android Patton pinned to the wall completely immobile due to how hard he got owned? He wasn't even able to speak.

And the "Bastards" that the VoidLarks took down, those weren't war ships, they were panicked hunters fleeing an attack on their home, so the Yautja equivalent of a "hunting jeep" completely pissed all over the Marines "Arrow Class" ship (best ship humanity has at their disposal by the way). I'd say the ones towards the end attacking everything in sight were the ones who were much more prepared.
[close]

If Yautja were such a joke as most of you seem to think, why the hell did we even bother with a ceasefire?

For those of you who have read the book, I hope this post served as a reminder to some of their capabilities, as most focus is shifted towards their apparent weakness.

I think it's best if we wait to see how Alien Invasion and AvP Armageddon go before we can make a final judgement of the Yautja. This is largely just a set up.

I believe Lebbon WILL make the Predators more deadly as they prepare for this.

happypred

The Yautja so far have a weak presence. This could be because humans so far have only encountered "hunters". They Yautja might have some secret military capability...but honestly, that does not seem to be the case in light of how they're getting their sh*t pushed in by the RAGE.

The Yautja are mentioned to be formidable, but they're shown as rather hopelessly outclassed. BTW, I am a predator fan but I'm fairly certain Hicks is much more of an Alien/Aliens fan.

When you effectively de-power the predators by massively buffing the humans, the predators lose their presence...their contribution to the story is lessened. They're just there to get massacred by humans and RAGE alike.

Corporal Hicks

Don't get me wrong, Guan. I agree with all the points are you making.

But what I'm trying to say is that we don't see the Predators being as deadly as much as we're told. There's an old adage about "showing, not telling". Showing is far more effective and would have made the Predators come across as a bigger thread.

I've got the questions back btw. Just sent a few more follow-up questions.

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