The Rage War: A three part Alien / Predator epic by Tim Lebbon

Started by Perfect-Organism, Nov 18, 2014, 10:44:01 PM

Author
The Rage War: A three part Alien / Predator epic by Tim Lebbon (Read 239,807 times)

RakaiThwei

There is no pleasing people. You've got people who don't want the new Alien Sequel to ignore Alien 3 and Resurrection, but in that context.. not counting time travel, clones, synthetics.. how can the reconciliation of the sequels happen if Blomkamp wants to willingly ignore it? Then you got the folks who do want it retconned..

A multiverse doesn't need to be openly and explicitly stated. A lot of franchises have alternate canons but they don't state they are multiverses or alternative timelines. They're just different interpretive paths of pre-existing material. So I don't see any harm to the mythology if there is more than one canon.

To the naysayers, I don't see what you're seeing as bad. To me it just comes off as just simply "Because I don't want one." Nothing more, nothing less. And the whole hard realism sci-fi reasoning? Everytime I hear it, it peeves me a bit because I do not see it as a good enough reason.

Not everything fits.. it has to go somewhere and I know not a lot of us want a single thing to go to merely oblivion.

Perfect-Organism

Well said Sir.  Go multiverse!

Ben Brown

Just to check: so far, in the "new" Alien/Predator/Prometheus canon, the official canon includes:

Films:

Alien
Aliens
Prometheus
Predator

Books:

Alien: Out of the Shadows
Alien: Sea of Sorrows
Alien: River of Pain

Games:

Alien Isolation

Comics:

Aliens: Fire and Stone
Predator: Fire and Stone
Prometheus: Fire and Stone
Alien vs. Predator: Fire and Stone
Alien Isolation tie-in comic

Am I missing anything? I know that there's debate about Aliens: Colonial Marines, although things seem to be leaning in the "no" direction for that game; and The Rage War Trilogy will obviously fit in, once they're released. I haven't been able to afford a copy of The Weyland-Yutani Report–seriously, what gives with the price?–but from what I've read, it seems to be a pretty solid "record" of the new canon.

Xenomrph

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 17, 2015, 07:49:06 AM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Aug 16, 2015, 07:16:26 PM
I feel like I'm the only one who is not too keen on the whole multiverse idea. I'd rather that be left to Marvel, DC and Star Trek.

I just feel that if we get a multiverse, it might weaken the species in some way. What Aliens and Predators achieve in one medium will not apply to the next.

I'm the same. I don't want it.
Ditto on this. I'm pretty disheartened to learn that Blomkamp's movie is apparently going to force the multiverse/alternate timeline angle, I always found the A/P/AvP universe much more interesting when it was exactly that: a universe (singular).

RakaiThwei

RakaiThwei

#394
Well Mr. Delamarggio, (I can use your name here, right?) we don't know what is going on here. Apparently statements are going back and forth if it's a retcon or not, even with Biehn's recent quote. For all we know, Blomkamp could be going the Bobby Ewing route.

Which I hope he doesn't because that's an easy but very stupid and insulting cop out.

I really don't want this:


Xenomrph

If you're going to use it, at least spell it right (Dellamarggio). ;)

Corporal Hicks

Quote from: RakaiThwei on Aug 18, 2015, 03:40:32 AM
Well Mr. Delamarggio, (I can use your name here, right?) we don't know what is going on here. Apparently statements are going back and forth if it's a retcon or not, even with Biehn's recent quote. For all we know, Blomkamp could be going the Bobby Ewing route.

Doesn't matter now you've put it.  >:( You should ask that kind of thing in private before hand.

predxeno


Quote from: Bkbboy on Aug 18, 2015, 01:08:15 AM
Just to check: so far, in the "new" Alien/Predator/Prometheus canon, the official canon includes:

Films:

Alien
Aliens
Prometheus
Predator

Books:

Alien: Out of the Shadows
Alien: Sea of Sorrows
Alien: River of Pain

Games:

Alien Isolation

Comics:

Aliens: Fire and Stone
Predator: Fire and Stone
Prometheus: Fire and Stone
Alien vs. Predator: Fire and Stone
Alien Isolation tie-in comic

Am I missing anything? I know that there's debate about Aliens: Colonial Marines, although things seem to be leaning in the "no" direction for that game; and The Rage War Trilogy will obviously fit in, once they're released. I haven't been able to afford a copy of The Weyland-Yutani Report–seriously, what gives with the price?–but from what I've read, it seems to be a pretty solid "record" of the new canon.

The other Predator movies might still be canon, I haven't heard any word about their canon status in the new universe (assuming we have a new universe).  A:CM is technically canon but it has heavy ties with Alien 3 so therefore its canon status in the new universe is as relevant as Alien 3's, which is nonexistent.

Corporal Hicks

The new film is just another sequel. No reboot. So it's still Predator, Predator 2, Predators and then Predator 4.

The Alien Predator

Quote from: RakaiThwei on Aug 17, 2015, 11:46:38 PM
There is no pleasing people. You've got people who don't want the new Alien Sequel to ignore Alien 3 and Resurrection, but in that context.. not counting time travel, clones, synthetics.. how can the reconciliation of the sequels happen if Blomkamp wants to willingly ignore it? Then you got the folks who do want it retconned..

A multiverse doesn't need to be openly and explicitly stated. A lot of franchises have alternate canons but they don't state they are multiverses or alternative timelines. They're just different interpretive paths of pre-existing material. So I don't see any harm to the mythology if there is more than one canon.

To the naysayers, I don't see what you're seeing as bad. To me it just comes off as just simply "Because I don't want one." Nothing more, nothing less. And the whole hard realism sci-fi reasoning? Everytime I hear it, it peeves me a bit because I do not see it as a good enough reason.

Not everything fits.. it has to go somewhere and I know not a lot of us want a single thing to go to merely oblivion.

That was a pet peeve for me because by that logic, we might as well throw in some lightsabres and the Force while we're at it... I mean, those can easily fit. Let a Predator force choke someone. Because "hard sci fi" is not a good enough reason to not include telekinetic magical abilities.

The Multiverse thing does not fit BECAUSE this is a hard sci fi.

I am so glad Shane Black understands that this franchise is filled with so much rich lore, that he wants to expand on something existing rather than being lazy and going "lol nope, didn't happen, let's piss off a couple of fans and press the restart button!"

Why can't Blomkamp just use what's already existing? He can easily fulfil his childhood dream with a movie about Colonial Marines and another strong female character. We don't always need the almighty holy omnipotent Ripley... someone on this forum said how Predator relies on Alien for success, well Alien relies on Ellen Ripley (more like OVER-relies) for success... do you know how FRESH the air would taste once a well done Alien movie without Ripley comes out? (Don't get me wrong, I like Ripley. But too many encounters just goes way beyond mere coincidence...)

It's like Shane Black going "right, we're gonna bring back Dutch, Mac, Dillon and the goddamn sexual tyrannosaurus because WHY NOT?"

Can't they know that fans have this thing called a "headcanon", they like to cherry pick? Like you cherry pick your Yautja stuff over the Hish. And here's the beauty, you ignoring the Hish novels does not impact the larger franchise for you, it's not blatantly said "this is an alternative reality", it leaves it up to us to decide that and everyone is right in the end.

Some can incorporate Hish and Yautja, some can completely ignore the EU and just like the films and so on. Some like Predxeno and myself can enjoy a huge portion of the EU and imagine it as one singular universe with a detailed history.

This franchise has some good self contained stories, you don't like? Ignore. Don't need to be told it's alternative reality.

So what if someone doesn't like the new universe? Do they give up their fan badge and stick with the old and possibly discontinued stuff?

Or would it be better to focus on self contained and easily ignorable stories? And leave the films as a more important chain of continuity?

RakaiThwei

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 18, 2015, 04:30:27 PM
The new film is just another sequel. No reboot. So it's still Predator, Predator 2, Predators and then Predator 4.

Then where does this leave the AvP films if the Word of God trope is not accounted for, as well as the Weyland Corp timeline?

Perfect-Organism

The fuse has been lit on my head-canon and its about to go off!  What a mess of a franchise.  But honestly, I love all the little separate avenues that the various timelines can go down.  I just wish we could all come to grips with the fact that this is fiction and enjoy the various alternate realities that writes come up with for us.

RakaiThwei

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 18, 2015, 08:22:54 PM
The fuse has been lit on my head-canon and its about to go off!  What a mess of a franchise.  But honestly, I love all the little separate avenues that the various timelines can go down.  I just wish we could all come to grips with the fact that this is fiction and enjoy the various alternate realities that writes come up with for us.

A year ago, I took on a project which was supposed to explain how an AvP multiverse sorted things out but I dropped the idea as I lost motivation to do it.

All in all, I especially agree with your last sentence. I mean, assuming Blomkamp does ignore Alien 3 and Resurrection, then a retcon was going to be inevitable. Usually in franchises, they are.

Corporal Hicks

Quote from: RakaiThwei on Aug 18, 2015, 08:14:45 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 18, 2015, 04:30:27 PM
The new film is just another sequel. No reboot. So it's still Predator, Predator 2, Predators and then Predator 4.

Then where does this leave the AvP films if the Word of God trope is not accounted for, as well as the Weyland Corp timeline?

The W-Y Timeline is just press stuff and I have no idea why you're bringing this up in response to me saying Predator 4 isn't going to be a reboot...?

RakaiThwei

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 18, 2015, 08:50:25 PM
The W-Y Timeline is just press stuff and I have no idea why you're bringing this up in response to me saying Predator 4 isn't going to be a reboot...?

Because as you said before, the Weyland Corp timeline is press stuff and generally should be discounted, and that AVP can still fit with PREDATORS and perhaps by proxy, Shane's movie.

I'm asking a legit question is all.

AvPGalaxy: About | Contact | Cookie Policy | Manage Cookie Settings | Privacy Policy | Legal Info
Facebook Twitter Instagram YouTube Patreon RSS Feed
Contact: General Queries | Submit News