Alien 3's (Assembly Cut) Extremely Dark Atmosphere

[Alien³]

So it's your opinion that for some reason no one out there can coherently explain why they think the AC cut is better?

No, it's a fact.  They can say they like it better, but no one's ever been able to objectively explain how it's a better film.

Okay then. This is rumour control, here are the facts...

I believe it's a better cut of the movie because it clears up things that were missing in the theatrical cut.

What does it clear up?  This is the question I've been asking that no one can answer.  What missing pieces of the theatrical version does it give us, that actually improve the film?

Well, (and I will be repeating the obvious here) Golic was one of the more prominent prisoners in the TC, and despite assuming he died in the fire, or the alien got him in the chase, there is no footage of that actor anywhere in the last half of the TC. the AC adds the missing pieces to his sub-plot, his character, and gives us a sequence that is not over the top, cheesy, or in anyway a divert from alien movie action sequences.

This in turn clears up a lot in terms of the events of the fire, we see how certain prisoners die without just saying "oh they must have just died in the fire, or the alien must have got them" which was all the TC could offer. We see more of the prisoners in the AC, little shots here and there, which helps the audience follow the path of destruction. Who is killed in what order etc.

The beach is nice - but adds nothing.

It adds a fair bit, it out rightly shows us the ocean which helps us understand Newt's drowning, something I believe was a throw away comment in the TC, in fact if memory serves me right there is a brief and dark shot of the EEV hitting water but no ocean or beach is mentioned. It has the prisoners using Ox and primitive means to pull the EEV out of the ocean which instantly shows us the unsophisticated and basic technology of the setting we're about to explore, not to mention the atmosphere and mood of the planet and film itself. Plus it introduces Clemens walking down to the beach alone, instantly bringing the audience's attention to the fact he's an outsider, someone who is willing to take a gentle walk through a windy hideous wasteland.

It adds more characterisation to a number of the prisoners

Boggs, Rains, Murphy and Frank get a little more dialogue before they're offed before the half way mark (well, Frank a bit after).  We already know Boggs and Rains don't like Golic from the theatrical version.  Now we know they don't like him 'cos he smells.  We already know the prisoners have a horn on for Ripley - here's Frank and Murphy to tell us all about it some more.  What revelations!

What about that scene where they think he smells? Don't forget it also includes Dillion telling them off, the fact they look like told off children, that they listen to him. Golic's toothy, crazy grin, letting us know he really isn't all there; which is something important that'll play out later on in the film. Plus the AC explains why they're going off into the dark forgotten corridors of the facility, whereas in TC it just cuts to them and we're left to presume what the hell they're doing.

I agree, Frank and Murphy talking about what they'd do to Ripley was already obvious from the get go, but it's right at the beginning of the film. It's the first scene where we hear the prisoners talking about her. It's not a life changing scene but it's not a drag either.

Also note the AC adds more to Clemens and Ripley's attraction to one another, Andrew's relationship to Clemen's, Ripley's relationship to 85, and builds upon the company and their pursuit of the alien. The TC does this to some degree, but not in the detailed and fleshed out way the AC does. Which is why I believe myself and others tend to say it's a "better" film.

Now...

[SiL]

Considering people still can't tell most prisoners apart - even getting names wrong while talking about how much clearer the AC makes thing - showing us who dies in what order doesn't actually add anything. We still don't know or care who these people are. "They died in the fire" is every bit as informative and relevant as "faceless guy one died this way, but faceless guy three died this way". Golic's fate is a novelty, not a necessity.

It's blatantly clear the EEV hits water in the TC, we don't need a beach to understand small girls drown when submerged too long. The movie shows us the lack of technology repeatedly and blatantly, the oxen are just one more repetition we don't need. Ditto Clemens' social isolation: this is addressed succinctly enough in the TC.

Beach scene is nice, but tells us nothing the TC doesn't.

[Alien³]

Considering people still can't tell most prisoners apart

Those people don't, and will not, pay attention.

We still don't know or care who these people are.

Same can be said for some of the Marines in Aliens but I don't see anyone complaining about that.

The movie shows us the lack of technology repeatedly and blatantly, the oxen are just one more repetition we don't need. Ditto Clemens' social isolation: this is addressed succinctly enough in the TC.

Yes, later on. But the AC does it right off the bat.

Golic's fate is a novelty, not a necessity.

Imagine if Gorman had got knocked out after the hive attack only to never be seen again. Would we have just chalked him off to "oh he must have died from his injuries," or, "an alien must have got him." Golic was an important character, the AC proves his sub-plot was crucial to the coherency of the film, its the TC that makes him another bald headed- nobody that no-one cares about.

[The1PerfectOrganism]

Okay maybe 'better' is the wrong word.

Say Alien was a standalone film, and then we later got a DC with egg cocoons.  There's something that could actually improve the film because it explains the Aliens motivation - it's not just killing to eat or just cos it can - it kills to reproduce.

There's no equivalent in the Alien3 AC.  It's just longer.

I'd personally miss the beach and some symbolism too much to watch the TC.

What symbolism?

There's a couple of cross shots not in the original.
Little things like that I feel add a lot.

[SM]

Well, (and I will be repeating the obvious here) Golic was one of the more prominent prisoners in the TC, and despite assuming he died in the fire, or the alien got him in the chase, there is no footage of that actor anywhere in the last half of the TC.

There's not a great deal in the first half.  He has the scene where Boggs and Rains are killed, then again when he's brought to the infirmary, then when Clemens dies.  His prominence is lessened in the first half, meaning no one misses him in the second half.

Who is killed in what order etc.

And yet, even people who profess to be fans can't tell them apart - nevermind the average punter.

It adds a fair bit, it out rightly shows us the ocean which helps us understand Newt's drowning, something I believe was a throw away comment in the TC, in fact if memory serves me right there is a brief and dark shot of the EEV hitting water but no ocean or beach is mentioned.

The EEV hits water, and we see water during the sunset shot (maybe even the crane hoisting the EEV in too - can't remember).  The beach adds precisely nothing to the narrative.

It has the prisoners using Ox and primitive means to pull the EEV out of the ocean which instantly shows us the unsophisticated and basic technology of the setting we're about to explore, not to mention the atmosphere and mood of the planet and film itself.

All detailed elsewhere in the film.

Plus it introduces Clemens walking down to the beach alone, instantly bringing the audience's attention to the fact he's an outsider, someone who is willing to take a gentle walk through a windy hideous wasteland.

Clemens is never seen mixing with the prisoners, and doesn't get on with Andrews.  Ergo he's an outsider.  While the beach is visually nice, it again doesn't add anything new to the narrative.  It just reinforces what's already there.

What about that scene where they think he smells? Don't forget it also includes Dillion telling them off, the fact they look like told off children, that they listen to him.

So?  It's established in the first rumour control scene that Dillon is effectively running the place.

Golic's toothy, crazy grin, letting us know he really isn't all there; which is something important that'll play out later on in the film.

How is it important?  Andrews tells us he's a nut, responsible for brutal crimes.

Plus the AC explains why they're going off into the dark forgotten corridors of the facility, whereas in TC it just cuts to them and we're left to presume what the hell they're doing.

No, it doesn't.

Also note the AC adds more to Clemens and Ripley's attraction to one another, Andrew's relationship to Clemen's, Ripley's relationship to 85, and builds upon the company and their pursuit of the alien. The TC does this to some degree, but not in the detailed and fleshed out way the AC does. Which is why I believe myself and others tend to say it's a "better" film.

All that stuff simply repeats what's already there.  The TC generally handles it in a much tighter fashion.  There's a difference between "fleshing out" and "redundant".  The relationships between Ripley and Clemens, Ripley and Aaron, and Andrews and Clemens are more than adequately dealt with in the TC.

In the AC they trap the Alien.  Ripley and Aaron discuss previously disclosed information and then Ripley hints that the Company wants the Alien.
They request permission to terminate.  Company denies them. So we know they want the Alien.
Ripley then tells Dillon they want the Alien.
Then we find out Ripley is carrying the Queen and the Company wants her quarantined.
Then Ripley and Dillon have to convince the other the Company wants it.

How many times do we need to get told the same thing?

Same can be said for some of the Marines in Aliens but I don't see anyone complaining about that.

Because the same can't be said of the marines.  The only people who aren't immediately recognisable are Crowe and Wierzbowski.  In Alien3 there's contention as to how many actual prisoners there are, nevermind their names or being able to tell them apart.

Imagine if Gorman had got knocked out after the hive attack only to never be seen again. Would we have just chalked him off to "oh he must have died from his injuries," or, "an alien must have got him." Golic was an important character, the AC proves his sub-plot was crucial to the coherency of the film, its the TC that makes him another bald headed- nobody that no-one cares about.

That's a poor example.  You'd have a point if Gorman's role was lessened in the first half - which it wasn't.  Golic's screen time got cut in the first half, meaning no one missed him when his original fate is cleanly lifted out of the film.

There's a couple of cross shots not in the original.
Little things like that I feel add a lot.

When?

[The1PerfectOrganism]

At the very begining-ish. When we're first introduced to the facility there's an extra shot of a cobbled together cross.
I think there's more but that's one I remember specifically.

[Local Trouble]

SM's doing the Lord's work in this thread.  No one will ever successfully argue that Alien 3 AC was a better film on his watch. 

[SM]

'ken oath.

[SiL]

Those people don't, and will not, pay attention.

These are people paying attention. The characters aren't notable enough.

Same can be said for some of the Marines in Aliens but I don't see anyone complaining about that.

People can tell the Marines apart and the ones we don't know or care about (And even some we do) die at the start of the conflict. We don't know or care because we don't need to, the survivors of the first hive encounter are the lead cast and we know all of them off by heart.

Yes, later on. But the AC does it right off the bat.

Which isn't at all necessary.

Imagine if Gorman had got knocked out after the hive attack only to never be seen again. Would we have just chalked him off to "oh he must have died from his injuries," or, "an alien must have got him." Golic was an important character, the AC proves his sub-plot was crucial to the coherency of the film, its the TC that makes him another bald headed- nobody that no-one cares about.

His sub-plot isn't crucial to the coherency of the film. All we do is assume that a guy left on his own, defenseless, in a room mere feet from an Alien, probably didn't live long after Ripley bolted. Everyone else's deaths are covered by the enormous explosions.

If you applied A3's cutting mentality to Aliens, you actually could cut Gorman from the second half and not have it be weird -- leave out the Marines confirming he's alive on the APC. Redub the dialogue to say he's dead, maybe add a bone cracking sound effect when stuff falls on him, problem solved.

Not that you could, because the way the film was shot Gorman was actually a main character relevant to the film, but hey.

[SM]

I actually though Gorman was largely absent from the second half of Aliens, but it's only about 15 (special edition) minutes.

[SiL]

Which is a pretty big chunk of the movie. The only thing you'd lose with him not in the second half, plot wise, is the grenade in the vents. Otherwise he's just there to round out his character arc.

[SM]

Only one apart from Ripley who has one.

[SiL]

[SM]

He sure sucked at following Ripley's instruction to "Watch Burke".

[Cvalda]

SM's doing the Lord's work in this thread.  No one will ever successfully argue that Alien 3 AC was a better film on his watch. 

He's like a more sophisticated The1PerfectOrganism in reverse