Last Movie You Watched

[HuDaFuK]

Alien - Theatrical Cut

Aliens - Special Edition

Alien 3 - Assembly Cut

Alien Resurrection - Theatrical Cut

The only way to watch the series now for me

I'd agree, except I kinda like the SE of Resurrection. Doesn't change much compared to the other three, but I like the little nods to Newt and I really dig Weaver's acting in those moments.

[Voodoo Magic]

I much prefer the princess cut too. I love the moment of Conan taking her hand and leading her away with Poledouris' beautiful score playing. After the intensity and excitement of the rest of the film, it's nice to just let it breathe and sit there for a moment to reflect on what's happened and let the journey come to a close.

It also shows him completing his McGuffin rather than entirely abandoning the plot

Well, you still learn that Conan returned the Princess in the postscript  , but to me that's inconsequential to the story.



But I never viewed the princess as a MacGuffin per say, more of a subplot. King Osric only offered that quest to save her roughly midway through the movie and Conan abandoned the King's offer after that (and his love Valeria) to seek out Doom's mountain alone, infiltrate his ranks, and kill the villain.

Of course, this got him crucified and gnawing on vultures (great scene) which reunited him with his friends and that quest. Even then, when Subotai insisted to Conan "Only the girl, we kill Thulsa Doom another day", Conan would not answer, and only sharpen his sword. And once the Princess was saved the movie didn't stop. In the extended cut Conan brings her back in harm's way to distract the guards. (In my preferred cut, Conan goes alone.) So Conan the Barbarian was a revenge movie through and through (and a path to learn the riddle of steel) starting from the opening of the movie when Thulsa Doom slayed his parents.

This is another reason (for me) to prefer the Princess not in the ending, because the movie was never about her. It was about Conan's sole unrelenting unstoppable drive to achieve vengeance, not both of them seeking revenge. It's better to me with just Conan, now that his entire purpose for living since he was enslaved on the Wheel of Pain as a child is over, sitting on those stairs, with his thoughts, dwelling on the words that Thulsa Doom said right before his death... : 

"I am the well spring, from which you flow. When I am gone, you will have never been. What would your world be, without me? My son.".

[SiL]

This is another reason (for me) to prefer the Princess not in the ending, because the movie was never about her.

Sure; like I said, she's a MacGuffin. The rescue mission is a pretense to connect Conan with Thulsa Doom, but it's otherwise meaningless.

But I personally enjoy the atmosphere and the mood and the pace of the princess ending over the perfunctory feel of the theatrical. And I like seeing the little extra touches of humanity and compassion at the heart of the barbarian in those final moments.

And I get more time with the score, which is the single best thing about the movie. Not that the rest of the movie is bad. I just really f**king love that soundtrack.

Boss Level

How to make unrelenting action unrelentingly boring.

[Voodoo Magic]

This is another reason (for me) to prefer the Princess not in the ending, because the movie was never about her.

Sure; like I said, she's a MacGuffin. The rescue mission is a pretense to connect Conan with Thulsa Doom, but it's otherwise meaningless.

The princess never directly connects Conan to Thulsa Doom... when he rescues her, nor when
Doom comes looking for her. Doom's minions, yes, but Conan never comes into actual contact with Doom as a result.

Most of creator Robert E. Howard's Conan stories were short stories. Some weren't even written by Howard but fleshed from his notes. Screenwriter John Milius loosely adapted these short stories in his script, basically assembling an anthology into a single narrative where fans would recognize oh, we're in "The Thing in the Crypt." Oh now we're in "The Tower of the Elephant" Etc. The script is basically a series of small adventures sewn together.

[SiL]

Getting her is why he goes out to where Doom and his cultists are. Without that mission he'd be wallowing in his hedonism. Rescuing her is the pretext to get Conan back on his mission of personal revenge.

Not that it really matters? Like, I get you don't like the princess ending, I'm not trying to convince you otherwise? I just personality like it and I said why, why are you arguing it?

[Voodoo Magic]

Getting her is why he goes out to where Doom and his cultists are. Without that mission he'd be wallowing in his hedonism. Rescuing her is the pretext to get Conan back on his mission of personal revenge.

Nope. Conan never left his thirst for revenge. When he steals the Eye of the Serpent before the Princess quest is offered, he sees Doom's jade standard of the two snakes coming together which motivates his need for revenge even further and finally gives him the clue he needs, long before King Osric quest is offered.

https://youtu.be/TsQB90ScNHY?t=220

And it's that snake standard that he stares at, and is obsessed with, when Valeria is pleading with Conan to focus on their relationship.

https://youtu.be/l7xguoeAnC8?t=109

But Conan's desire for revenge is too great, so he leaves it all behind including the Princess quest, to infiltrate the Children of Doom and tries to get close enough to kill Thulsa Doom. (I have a long history with this film, including an interview with Jody Samson and a nice chat with John Milius!) 

Not that it really matters? Like, I get you don't like the princess ending, I'm not trying to convince you otherwise? I just personality like it and I said why, why are you arguing it?

I think we were actually debating Subplot versus MacGuffin. Oh well, that doesn't probably matter either.  Cheers!

[SiL]

And it's that snake standard that he stares at, and is obsessed with, when Valeria is pleading with Conan to focus on their relationship.

https://youtu.be/l7xguoeAnC8?t=109

And then he focuses on the relationship and indulging in "all manner of pleasures and diversions". He loses his drive to continue seeking revenge and revels in the spoils of his victory. The call to retrieve the princess is what snaps him back to reality and gets the plot moving back towards its ultimate goal of vengeance.

While Conan got a clue from the standard, he got a location from the princess subplot. The mission was a device used simply to get him where he needed to be, that ultimately bares little relevance on the overall story - that's the definition of a MacGuffin.

Without the mission he has a clue but no direction. It's not like he was already heading out to the mountain and just picked up a job on the way there.

That's all I've been saying. That mission got him where he needed to be so other, more important stuff could happen. The princess is a MacGuffin in that regard.

[Kradan]

This whole argument reminds me of:

Spoiler

[close]

[SiL]

Because we're both saying the same thing?

[Kradan]

Because you're like two brothers 

[SiL]

Re-Animator

Schlocky gory fun.

[Voodoo Magic]

And it's that snake standard that he stares at, and is obsessed with, when Valeria is pleading with Conan to focus on their relationship.

https://youtu.be/l7xguoeAnC8?t=109

And then he focuses on the relationship and indulging in "all manner of pleasures and diversions". He loses his drive to continue seeking revenge and revels in the spoils of his victory. The call to retrieve the princess is what snaps him back to reality and gets the plot moving back towards its ultimate goal of vengeance.

I never got a sense he lost his drive. Conan was partying with Subotai too on the very same path of revenge. The dude can take breaks.

But when Conan left Valeria and Subotai, he wasn't on the mission to save a Princess. Oscric's offer to their group simply gave Conan the final piece of the puzzle: Doom's location. He's back on the same path.

From the beginning Conan asked the Wolf Witch about the snake standard, slept with her, then threw her in the fireplace.  Conan meets Subotai, hangs, gets drunk & high in towns, ate lots of fast food, and asked people about the snake standard. Conan even asked Ron Cobb, who directed him to the tower that had snakes about the standard, which is where he eventually finds the standard and meets Valeria.

The dude has been on a mission since released from bondage. All through the movie so far he's been looking for Thulsa Doom. He's been on this one quest of revenge. And the dude has been picking up clues regarding to his location.

Yes he & Valeria bang and get drunk to celebrate in rich debauchery. Osric reveals Thulsa's location - in the mountain of power (the final clue!), Valeria loves him, but Conan must drive forward alone, not to fetch the princess, but kill Thulsa. He's still not on Osric's quest. He's on the very same path he's been on in the beginning. The same path of revenge, which would have continued with or without King Osric and the Princess. (He wouldn't have stayed with Valeria and raised a family)

Only after Conan's crucifixion is where his friends coral him into the quest for saving the Princess, but they can see Conan's path, so much though Subotai must say "Only the girl, we kill Thulsa Doom another day". Conan doesn't respond. Will he even listen?

We'll never know, because the quest is completed and Thulsa and Conan never come face to face. So what does Conan do at that point? He continues on the very same path of revenge.

Now the MacGuffin / Subplot debate, their definitions can cross, so to spare everyone else (and myself) from pages and pages with no conclusion, I'll call a truce.

Because you're like two brothers 

As having an older brother, this may be the most accurate thing anyone has ever said here! 

[SiL]

I'm still confused about what you're disagreeing with me about. You're explaining in great detail that she's a MacGuffin while trying to say she's not a MacGuffin. Everything you've described about her and her mission is what a MacGuffin is

Her existence is a pretense for the plot to get him to Doom. The mission is a subplot, sure, but the character functions as a MacGuffin - something the characters seek that is ultimately meaningless to the plot but nudges it in the right direction.

Why call a truce when we can just acknowledge we actually just agree on something for once? 

[HuDaFuK]

Under Siege

"Daumer, Daumer, Daumer, why didn't you hire this person? I don't know what his price would've been but it would've been worth it."

Seagal's one indisputably good movie.

[WIZARDSxNEVERxDIE]

The Sound of Music (1965)