Scientific inaccuracies in Alien

Started by The Cruentus, Feb 05, 2021, 02:17:19 PM

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Scientific inaccuracies in Alien (Read 33,282 times)

[cancerblack]

Quote from: Omegamorph on Feb 08, 2021, 06:44:58 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 08, 2021, 06:32:05 PM
It's not that he's "wrong", it's audience shorthand. The Space Jockey isn't *literally* fossilized, but Dallas is conveying to the audience that it's "old".

thanks


SO MANY people don't get this and--

it's quite frustrating tbh

So many wasted hours trying to convince people of this on Facebook. Those podcast dudes being some prime offenders, from memory.

Xenomrph

Xenomrph

#166
Quote from: Trash Queen on Feb 08, 2021, 08:50:30 PM
It does not contradict anything actually.


At the risk of detailing the thread, the "contradiction" is that the Alien is intended to be ancient in 'Alien' yet it's only 20 years old per Covenant.

A reminder that the most recent official Fox line is actually that we don't know how old the Alien is, the deliberate answer from Fox when content creators and writers have asked has been "no comment, don't touch the subject". Whether that changes under Disney is yet to be seen.

windebieste

Aside from the cursory examination of the Space Jockey, forensics is not Dallas professional specialty. He's the Captain of the Nostromo and could easily be making an incorrect judgment call based on observations in the dark he knows nothing about. Dallas is also constantly wrong and making fundamentally bad decisions throughout the movie that lead to his demise. In this regard - his error of believing the Space Jockey is "old" comes into question.

So sure, he could be providing a narrative detail to the audience about the age of the SJ; but his comments may also be considered foreshadowing of further errors he makes later in the movie. Critical errors based on poor judgment calls. Foreshadowing is also a valid narrative device; and as we are seeing in recent movies by Scott, commonplace.

What's more, define "fossilised". Once you find a definition that actually fits the condition of the Space Jockey, you'll begin to appreciate how it could easily be less than ten years old. It could easily be a recent or young sample.

The derelict may have been on Acheron for thousands of years; or it may have been a more recent event. No one knows this detail just yet. Insisting it's one way or the other is based on data that can be easily misinterpreted - and renegotiated by any upcoming film maker. This is still a very flexible detail, not yet set in stone; but as recent movies are beginning to indicate, it's a recent crash. Ten to Twenty years old.

Ten or ten thousand years old. Take your pick. But if there's one thing I have learned regarding the recent movies, it's best to be prepared to leave expectations at the door when the next movie arrives and accept the outcome.


-Windebieste.

Xenomrph

Xenomrph

#168
Quote from: windebieste on Feb 08, 2021, 09:25:16 PMSo sure, he could be providing a narrative detail to the audience about the age of the SJ; but his comments may also be considered foreshadowing of further errors he makes later in the movie. Critical errors based on poor judgment calls. Foreshadowing is also a valid narrative device; and as we are seeing in recent movies by Scott, commonplace.
This is an interesting idea and reading of the movie, although I don't agree with it - the intent for the Space Jockey at the time they were making the movie was that it was old. Thinking that Ridley had a master plan to demonstrate that Dallas actually has bad judgment is a bit too "revisionist history" for me.

QuoteWhat's more, define "fossilised". Once you find a definition that actually fits the condition of the Space Jockey, you'll begin to appreciate how it could easily be less than ten years old. It could easily be a recent or young sample.
Using a strict definition of "fossilized" kind of misses the point behind what is being said. Dallas is using shorthand to convey to the audience that it's old, and "fossilized" is an easy one-word way to do that which most people will instantly understand. Whether it's *literally* fossilized isn't the point.

QuoteThe derelict may have been on Acheron for thousands of years; or it may have been a more recent event. No one knows this detail just yet. Insisting it's one way or the other is based on data that can be easily misinterpreted - and renegotiated by any upcoming film maker. This is still a very flexible detail
This is a largely salient point though.

426Buddy

426Buddy

#169
I think regardless of what the writer/creators intent is with the Dallas line about fossilisation, the age of the Derelict is not explicitly defined with in the film itself so changing it doesn't seem unreasonable.

BlueMarsalis79

Do you know what some people consider old?

X-Men (2000)

426Buddy

426Buddy

#171
21 years old... damn that film is old enough to drink already? Now I feel old

BlueMarsalis79

Almost my age. lol

Xenomrph

Xenomrph

#173
Quote from: Trash Queen on Feb 08, 2021, 10:12:08 PM
Do you know what some people consider old?

X-Men (2000)
That's a pretty disingenuous example of "old" and I think you know it. :P

SM

SM

#174
Quote from: 426Buddy on Feb 08, 2021, 10:03:47 PM
I think regardless of what the writer/creators intent is with the Dallas line about fossilisation, the age of the Derelict is not explicitly defined with in the film itself so changing it doesn't seem unreasonable.

Quite.

O'Bannon intended them to be old, but since it's never explicit in the film - it can be redefined.

BlueMarsalis79

If someone died twenty years ago and I found their skeleton decaying on a leather chair in front of a computer, I'd consider that old.

And I might even assume it's an even older skeleton if it's in front of a ham radio, (older technology) it might be mummified, or ossified.

My first thought might even be the word fossilized even if that's not entirely accurate to the reality, but it gets across what I mean generally.

Xenomrph

Xenomrph

#176
lol okay

That's some silly revisionist history right there, Dallas didn't think it was only 20 years old, and no sane person would use the word fossilized to describe a corpse they thought was 20 years old. Even using audience shorthand like "mummified" implies "thousands of years old", because your average audience member doesn't know mummies can be made very quickly under specially controlled conditions and using the word "mummified" implies "at least as old as ancient Egypt" in pop culture parlance. Using the word "fossilized" implies its even older.

BlueMarsalis79

BlueMarsalis79

#177

Xenomrph

Xenomrph

#178
The point is that your scenario would never happen in a movie with a sane screenwriter trying to communicate with his audience, or in real life with people who know what words mean. Even SM acknowledged that Dallas thought the Jockey was old as in "ancient", not old as in a teenager thinking in terms of movies his dad liked. Context matters.

BlueMarsalis79

BlueMarsalis79

#179
Yeah right.

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