Has AvPR improved wih age?

[predxeno]

To be fair, people not seeing Aliens dying onscreen is the same as people not seeing Aliens surviving onscreen; either way, people aren't seeing anything.  Also, can't the same be said for AVPR's Aliens adapting?

[SiL]

That first sentence makes no sense.

The AvPR Aliens don't adapt. All they ever do is run at Wolf, then go limp when they get to close. Over and over and over.

[predxeno]

I was thinking about the time when an Alien smacked Wolf off a walkway at the power plant, tbh.  As for the cannon fodder moments, I think it's pretty clear that the Strause Bros. were following the cannon fodder interpretation of Aliens and the games than the adaptive interpretation.  What I meant referring to my earlier sentence was that just because we don't see Aliens die onscreen doesn't mean they survived, Cameron deliberately hid most of the action to create a feeling of horror and suspense so we can only guess if the creatures actually survived or died.

[SiL]

I was thinking about the time when an Alien smacked Wolf off a walkway at the power plant, tbh.

Instead of immediately impaling him like any Alien in the previous movie would've done.

What I meant referring to my earlier sentence was that just because we don't see Aliens die onscreen doesn't mean they survived, Cameron deliberately hid most of the action to create a feeling of horror and suspense so we can only guess if the creatures actually survived or died.

He actually bothered to show us Aliens dying, though. Very few of them. And he bothered to show us a massive wall of motion signals at the end of the movie, showing most were still around.

We know they died: the thermonuclear explosion took care of that. But before then, they lost very few.

[predxeno]

Well, all I know is that there are differing opinions on the issue in Aliens; some believe many of the Aliens were killed as cannon fodder while others, like yourself, believe in a more adaptive interpretation.  I just follow the "everything is canon" doctrine Fox has laid out so that means the Aliens are interpreted mostly as cannon fodder to me, with exception to a few exceedingly smart ones. . Sadly for your interpretation, it seems the Strause Bros. were following the cannon fodder interpretation than the adaptive one.

[SiL]

Well, all I know is that there are differing opinions on the issue in Aliens; some believe many of the Aliens were killed as cannon fodder while others, like yourself, believe in a more adaptive interpretation.

The ones who believe the Aliens were mowed down in large numbers are demonstrably wrong. It's not a matter of opinion, they're just wrong.

The portrayal of the Aliens in AvPR has nothing to do with some "cannon fodder vs. adaptive interpretation" crap you're just now pulling out your backside: they're simply incompetent and not the least bit threatening and act completely contrary to any Aliens shown in films. They also act contrary to Aliens shown in games. And comics. And novels.

The "cannon fodder" idea is that they will throw a lot of themselves into guns and no-one cares about the individual Aliens, it doesn't mean they're literally useless like AvPR shows them. Even in Aliens, when they get their hands on you, you're f**ked.

How many times playing an AvP video game did the Aliens that ran up to you just stop attacking the second you hit them once with your wristblades as a Predator? Never, unless you'd damaged it enough for that hit to kill it.

[predxeno]

How does AVPR demonstrably show them to be "useless"?  They're still quite lethal and are responsible for killing LOTS of humans, the fact that they're not quite as effective against Wolf, who is an Alien-hunting veteran, isn't exactly a surprise for those who have been playing the games.

[SiL]

the fact that they're not quite as effective against Wolf, who is an Alien-hunting veteran, isn't exactly a surprise for those who have been playing the games.

It's incredibly surprising to me. Not a damn time could I make an Alien in any game just stop attacking me by stabbing it once. If I stabbed it once, it stabbed me twice. Rarely was I dumb enough or unlucky enough to even let the Aliens get that close to start with, because being dog-piled by Aliens meant dying.

Wolf's never shown to be any good at anything he does, the Aliens are just somehow the only thing in the universe less competent than him. If he'd gone up against any of the Aliens just from the previous movie and tried the same shit, he would've been dead after his first encounter.

"But he's an elite!"

No, he's a God-damned idiot who strikes poses and leaves himself wide open. His only salvation is that his enemies don't take any of the dozens of opportunities he gives them to impale him and end it. The Strausse Brothers decided they didn't like Aliens using their tails in an offensive manner -- despite the fact they have always done so -- and so had them flop around in the background, despite every Alien in just the previous movie Alien using its tail to stab the shit out of a Predator at any given opportunity.

It's just shit all the way down.

[predxeno]

It's incredibly surprising to me. Not a damn time could I make an Alien in any game just stop attacking me by stabbing it once. If I stabbed it once, it stabbed me twice. Rarely was I dumb enough or unlucky enough to even let the Aliens get that close to start with, because being dog-piled by Aliens meant dying.

You'll have to be a bit more specific on when an Alien stopped attacking just because it was stabbed.  Also as you said earlier, there are some game mechanics when it comes to video games; perhaps the Alien would have winced when attacked had the incident occurred in a movie or book.

Wolf's never shown to be any good at anything he does, the Aliens are just somehow the only thing in the universe less competent than him. If he'd gone up against any of the Aliens just from the previous movie and tried the same shit, he would've been dead after his first encounter.

Again, more details please.

No, he's a God-damned idiot who strikes poses and leaves himself wide open. His only salvation is that his enemies don't take any of the dozens of opportunities he gives them to impale him and end it. The Strausse Brothers decided they didn't like Aliens using their tails in an offensive manner -- despite the fact they have always done so -- and so had them flop around in the background, despite every Alien in just the previous movie Alien using its tail to stab the shit out of a Predator at any given opportunity.

Well, Chet tail-stabbed Rick...  Also, I think the Aliens in the film were more favorable to pounces than tail attacks; in AVP2, pounces actually did far more damage than tail jabs.

[SiL]

You'll have to be a bit more specific on when an Alien stopped attacking just because it was stabbed.

Hospital. Wolf stabbed Alien, held it against a wall while he shot another Alien, threw the first Alien back down, shoots it in the head.

Alien does nothing the whole time.

Again, more details please.

No. You know all of the scenes I'm talking about where he's left wide open and unprotected from attack, and the Aliens don't attack.

Well, Chet tail-stabbed Rick... 

But not Wolf when Wolf had both of his hands occupied holding Aliens. The Alien that knocked Wolf over at the power plant could have just impaled him.

[predxeno]

Hospital. Wolf stabbed Alien, held it against a wall while he shot another Alien, threw the first Alien back down, shoots it in the head.

Alien does nothing the whole time.

Well, I suppose Wolf could have stabbed the Alien in a vital organ.  In the games, the Predator attacks with swiping attacks rather than stabbing ones.  In real life, if you stabbed someone then that could inflict serious damage if you hit the right spot however if you swipe at them with a knife then the ribcage will help deflect the attack.

No. You know all of the scenes I'm talking about where he's left wide open and unprotected from attack, and the Aliens don't attack.

I know every scene in the movie, but I don't interpret those scenes the same way you do.

But not Wolf when Wolf had both of his hands occupied holding Aliens. The Alien that knocked Wolf over at the power plant could have just impaled him.

He kinda did actually, the Alien knocked Wolf off the walkway where he got impaled on a metal strut upon landing which was so serious a wound Wolf actually had to use his medikit to appropriately recover.  Also as I said earlier, the Aliens in the movie were more favorable to pouncing which has done more damage than tail-jabs in the games.  Also depending on how flexible the tail is, adjusting that appendage into an appropriate attack position could have been difficult and awkward during the sewer fight scene.

[SiL]

In the games, the Predator attacks with swiping attacks rather than stabbing ones.

You can punch with wristblades.

He kinda did actually,

In no way did it. A metal beam he happened to f**king land on did, not the Alien. There's no "kind of", "maybe" or "almost" about it. How desperate are you?

Also as I said earlier, the Aliens in the movie were more favorable to pouncing which has done more damage than tail-jabs in the games.

Strausse Brothers said only the movies were canon

[predxeno]

You can punch with wristblades.

Only the right hand had wrist blades, not the left.  Also, there are game mechanics in a game as I said earlier.

He kinda did actually,

In no way did it. A metal beam he happened to f**king land on did, not the Alien. There's no "kind of", "maybe" or "almost" about it. How desperate are you?

You can nitpick Alien tactics all you want but you know that if AVPR had been a popular movie then no one would even be considering these minor points just like nobody wants to consider how Ripley's elbow can withstand the vacuum of space in Aliens or why she thought it was a good idea to open an air lock into it when she had no guarantee that Newt or Bishop would not get sucked in, sometimes characters/monsters do strange things in movies (and even in real life), don't over-analyze it. 

Plus, you are forgetting that tail stabbing may not have been a viable option for the Alien since they were on a walkway and that's a VERY narrow fighting space so it could have been more appropriate to send Wolf falling to great injury than to risk that sort of disadvantage in a fight.  Also calm down, we're just having a discussion, there's no reason to lose it.

Strausse Brothers said only the movies were canon

I would definitely like a source for this.

[SiL]

Only the right hand had wrist blades, not the left.  Also, there are game mechanics in a game as I said earlier.

Which hand has them is irrelevant (And they're on the right for all of the Predators in the movies up until that point, so why are you even mentioning this?), and if they'd wanted it to always swing they would have animated it like that. Game mechanics don't factor into it. Don't use game mechanics to worm out of it, when you won't use game mechanics to explain cannon fodder Aliens.

As for your previous comment on flinching, flinching mechanics had been around for ages in games. Hell, Doom has flinching, it's how you can kill a Pinkie demon with a chainsaw and not get hurt. If they'd wanted it, they could have put it in there.

You can nitpick Alien tactics all you want but you know that if AVPR had been a popular movie then no one would even be considering these minor points

Yes they would. And these aren't minor points, they're crucial to the central conflict of the film -- Aliens and Predators fighting. All of these things undermine that, and without that, the film never stands a chance.

If the film had been popular it would likely be because many of these issues weren't in it

just like nobody wants to consider how Ripley's elbow can withstand the vacuum of space in Aliens

This gets called out a lot.

or why she thought it was a good idea to open an air lock into it when she had no guarantee that Newt or Bishop would not get sucked in,

This isn't the same thing at all -- but even if it were: She's desperate to kill the Queen. The fact she doesn't make sure they're secured isn't ignored, it's used to add tension to the scene when we see Newt sliding along the ground.

I would definitely like a source for this.

On these forums, when asked.

[predxeno]

As for your previous comment on flinching, flinching mechanics have been around for ages. Hell, Doom has flinching, it's how you can kill a Pinkie demon with a chainsaw and not get hurt.

Each game has its own mechanics, it depends if the developer wants to add them, but this is going off-topic.

This isn't the same thing at all -- but even if it were: She's desperate to kill the Queen. The fact she doesn't make sure they're secured isn't ignored, it's used to add tension to the scene when we see Newt sliding along the ground.

So if you're desperate to eliminate the only threat to the people you care about, your best option would be to risk the very people you care about in an attempt to eliminate said threat?   Also, if adding tension to a scene is an okay excuse then the same can be said for various scenes in AVPR.  Aliens didn't tail-stab because it would drain the tension... 

But that's besides the point, there's a saying, "Don't judge a heart-stopping nature of a fight from the comfort of a throne."  Aliens aren't Terminators, they don't act perfectly; they're organisms like us with their own instincts and emotions.  You can find flaws or careless errors in any fictional or real world fight you examine, and like I said earlier you're picturing a perfect world where things will go according to plan, you're outright ignoring many factors that eliminate your own arguments.

I would definitely like a source for this.

On these forums, when asked.

So, is fan opinion your "source"?