Flop?

Started by KirklandSignature, May 30, 2012, 03:00:25 PM

Author
Flop? (Read 9,121 times)

PROM3TH3US

PROM3TH3US

#15
Quote from: NGR01 on May 30, 2012, 04:21:18 PM
Agreed.
The movie can be awesome and flop.
It can be shit and be a smash it.
Numbers means nothing.

Exactly like the number of full positive review.
People choose to diss the negatives ones saying for exemple that the critics did not get ALIEN. Then they are so happy to read positives reviews. LOL
Hypocrisy my friend.

That's why I see this as a hybrid.  2001:ASO+ALIENS.  So best of both world.  Not too brainy that will bore people out but with enough action to carry the movie through.

NGR01

NGR01

#16
Quote from: PROM3TH3US on May 30, 2012, 04:19:03 PM
Quote from: NGR01 on May 30, 2012, 04:13:15 PM
Not a flop.
But no hit neither.
Doubt the broad audience is gonna love it that much.
The unanswered question can pissed them off.

I disagreed.  Unanswered questions makes fun/thoughful discussion either good or bad.  The Matrix.  2001:ASO, Inception, Mulholland Drive, Alien and many more.

I'm talking about the regular audience wich represent 80% of the sales.
Those people who go see a movie because it's the latest tom cruise or brad pitt and don't give a damn about the actual movie they are seeing because it's just a way to pass time.
Those don't dwell into inanswered questions they want some simple popcorn flick.
The people who saw Drive expecting Fast and furious.

Those who discuss MATRIX or David Lynch are not the one the studio aim for we are already going to see those movie.
The real money is in Joe Shmoe.

hfeldhaus

hfeldhaus

#17
I strongly believe Prometheus will be very successful in the US. Americans love the drama of a prequel, and if this lives up to the hype about it's visual it's going to be lapped up just like avatar. Prometheus has had the best marketing campaign iv ever seen, so although it may not live up to the hype this is a movie event that needs to be seen

PROM3TH3US

PROM3TH3US

#18
Quote from: armageddon on May 30, 2012, 04:24:24 PM
Don't think so. I mean, Avatar had the dumbest story anyone could cook up and it ended up being the most successful movie ever.

Properly marketed sci-fi movies are doing very weel these days and I'm convinced it's a good movie.

I just wish it would have been a great movie..

I don't think it's the dumbest story.  It's just that it wasn't original because it borrowed for Dances with Wolves and Pocahontas.  It's was pretty much an universal story that people can relate to but to hard core fans it wasn't good enough of a story.

NGR01

NGR01

#19
Quote from: PROM3TH3US on May 30, 2012, 04:29:14 PM
Quote from: armageddon on May 30, 2012, 04:24:24 PM
Don't think so. I mean, Avatar had the dumbest story anyone could cook up and it ended up being the most successful movie ever.

Properly marketed sci-fi movies are doing very weel these days and I'm convinced it's a good movie.

I just wish it would have been a great movie..

I don't think it's the dumbest story.  It's just that it wasn't original because it borrowed for Dances with Wolves and Pocahontas.  It's was pretty much an universal story that people can relate to but to hard core fans it wasn't good enough of a story.

Agreed.
The storytelling is also top notch.
Look at John Carter its basically the same story but flopped (wich is funny since AVATAR is like an unofficial John Carter)

Le Celticant

Le Celticant

#20
Quote from: PROM3TH3US on May 30, 2012, 04:19:03 PM
Quote from: NGR01 on May 30, 2012, 04:13:15 PM
Not a flop.
But no hit neither.
Doubt the broad audience is gonna love it that much.
The unanswered question can pissed them off.

I disagreed.  Unanswered questions makes fun/thoughful discussion either good or bad.  The Matrix.  2001:ASO, Inception, Mulholland Drive, Alien and many more.  I love these kind of movies.  I do not like to be spoon fed.  Look at what happen to the Matrix sequels.

Yes but those unanswered questions raise your Imaginations in those movies.
It's not the case in Prometheus because it is:
-Either a production development problem
-Either a stupid concept that doesn't need an answer because you simply doesn't care at all.
-Either a concept that only serves the story and nothing less.

You're not asking questions, the characters in the films are doing it for you on a so pathetic and obvious level unlike 2001, Matrix, Inception, etc.

GreatKnower

GreatKnower

#21
Quote
Yes but those unanswered questions raise your Imaginations in those movies.
It's not the case in Prometheus because it is:
-Either a production development problem
-Either a stupid concept that doesn't need an answer because you simply doesn't care at all.
-Either a concept that only serves the story and nothing less.

You're not asking questions, the characters in the films are doing it for you on a so pathetic and obvious level unlike 2001, Matrix, Inception, etc.

Im glad someone else has stated this besides me. In other threads/forums i posited the same dilemma.

In the matrix, inception, memento, and other truly multilayered, symbol driven movies, the writers know what they are trying to say, and they are embedding deep ideas AND answers within the plot. The matrix----they tell you what it is, they show you what it is, the discussion comes from questions like "what is real?" and "what side are you on?"

Lindelof doesnt do this. HE creates the questions nonstop without providing any cohesion or pivot point to pick a side on. It's a mockery of "matrixed" stories and films. There is no "solution", not in an existential way, its deliberately empty. Its a mockery.

That's why people call him Hack or Fraud. Its not because he does things people "dont get" or "dont like". Its because he outright LIES, there is nothing to get, he has no point, no message. He creates psuedo discussion because he has made the water as clear as tar.

Ooze on First

Ooze on First

#22
I find it unlikely that a bunch of Negative-Nancys on a random fan-boy message board could accurately predict the time of day, let alone the final box-office of a movie almost nobody has seen yet.

NGR01

NGR01

#23
Yeah guys go home don't discuss anything.
This is not the point of a forum to discuss things.

Also dont give any credit to a few negative reviews.
We all know that its the majority is always right.
Also critics sucks, they dissed ALIEN and BLADE RUNNER.
But if they write a positive review of PROMETHEUS its ok.

le Celticant and Xenoscream have also been negative like me since day one right???

Bunch of blinded fanboys fools and hypocrites.

At least wait until you have seen the movie to diss the "negative nancys".
until then just keep quiet and leave the people who actually saw the movie discuss it.


Xenomorphine

Xenomorphine

#24
Quote from: escroto on May 30, 2012, 03:12:18 PM
hasn't the aliens fanbase over the USA being always enoooooooormous among other things thanks to Cameron's "Aliens" and all his military stuff in the movie?

Doubt this film can flop in the USA, honestly

America is quite possibly the most diverse cultural melting pot on the entire planet. These days, if you're trying to hand-wave some sort of general blanket assumption over what the US public will/won't like... You're not going to get very far.

People like good films, so long as they're entertaining. And, in the case of science-fiction, usually so long as they provide a decent margin of escapism, too.

We know 'Prometheus' has got the last element. Whether or not it's good and entertaining? The jury's still out.

Quote from: armageddon on May 30, 2012, 04:24:24 PM
Don't think so. I mean, Avatar had the dumbest story anyone could cook up and it ended up being the most successful movie ever.

'Avatar' was an epic on the scale of something which hadn't been done in an age. Plus, had the gimmick of finally introducing matured 3D technology to the masses in a way which didn't detract from the story, but mostly just added to the atmosphere.

I'm not sure it would've been quite as successful if it wasn't for the latter. Probably made its money back, but... Not in the gang-busters way it eventually did.

Being a family-friendly film also helped, of course.

ThisBethesdaSea

ThisBethesdaSea

#25
Lets not forget that BladeRunner was a flop, panned by critics and audiences alike upon release....so, this seems about right for Prometheus. The best judgements happen after a longer gestation period ;)

OpenMaw

OpenMaw

#26
Quote from: PROM3TH3US on May 30, 2012, 04:29:14 PM
Quote from: armageddon on May 30, 2012, 04:24:24 PM
Don't think so. I mean, Avatar had the dumbest story anyone could cook up and it ended up being the most successful movie ever.

Properly marketed sci-fi movies are doing very weel these days and I'm convinced it's a good movie.

I just wish it would have been a great movie..

I don't think it's the dumbest story.  It's just that it wasn't original because it borrowed for Dances with Wolves and Pocahontas.  It's was pretty much an universal story that people can relate to but to hard core fans it wasn't good enough of a story.

It's a dumb story because it brings absolutely nothing new to the table. Nothing. It takes from all the typical environmentalist stories and all the typical being one with nature stories, and the evil of man, and falling in love with  a native. Classic, done a billion times before, films. Avatar didn't try to do anything new in terms of story telling. It was entirely about the visual spectacle. Some people enjoyed it, a lot of people did in fact, but that doesn't make it a smart movie by any stretch.

Dumb doesn't nessacarily mean bad, either. 300 and Commando are dumb as Hell, but they're still GLORIOUSLY awesome.


This also ties back into Prometheus. And it's like I've been saying any time the shoddy science is brought into the discussion. What's the point of having a bunch of questions raised if the initial science backing the premise is absolutely balls? The questions, too, also fail to impress an audience if they don't seem to carry any meaning, and unfortunatly from what i've been reading they really don't carry any kind of a meaning. Any meaning they do have is only going to be very much apparent to people who really love Alien. Which is bad movie making. As Cameron said of Aliens, he didn't want to make a sequel that required you to have seen Alien. He wanted to make a movie that would stand on it's own. I'm hoping that the reviews are grossly mistaken in this regard about Prometheus.

ThisBethesdaSea

ThisBethesdaSea

#27
OpenMaw you saw the film? Or are you just predisposed to not liking it based on the opinions of others?

NGR01

NGR01

#28
Be careful Open Maw, the tought police is here :)

OpenMaw

OpenMaw

#29
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on May 30, 2012, 05:58:31 PM
OpenMaw you saw the film? Or are you just predisposed to not liking it based on the opinions of others?

My opinion at this point is neither positive nor negative. I reserve judgement until I see film. I would have thought that would be obvious based on what I was saying my conclusions at this time were being drawn from.

Quote from: NGR01 on May 30, 2012, 06:03:05 PM
Be careful Open Maw, the tought police is here :)

Yeah, i'm noticing that. ;D

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