Concerning the fanbase...

Started by RakaiThwei, Mar 26, 2007, 03:34:07 AM

Author
Concerning the fanbase... (Read 6,860 times)

RakaiThwei

RakaiThwei

I have noticed that there have been a more than a few issues dealing with the canon dealing with Predator, AvP, and the Aliens saga. Although some people are open to new ideas, I have noticed that some of the fanbase has been saying no to alot of things.

I have noticed that some people have had an issue with the AvP movie taking in some characteristics of the movie and novels which Perry wrote (the comics came before, I know) namely the blooding and rite of passage issue which some people have. The whole honor thing which was introduced in Predator 2, some people choose to ignore flat out as if it were some bane.

Also, concerning possible ideas which would open new doors and make horizons broader for the AvP franchise, many fans still say no. Some people have had issues with females being shown in the possible (but doubtful) Predator 3 movie. Also AGAIN with the blooding and rank issues have, people STILL argue and debate about the Yautja being Unbloodeds in P1 (P2 is a different story).

Also the whole idea of a PredAlien Queen seems to be something new to explore. Why do I see fans fearing and saying no to the idea? Is it because of Ressurrection's Newborn Alien?

I'm NOT flaming anyone here, or saying anyone is wrong... But I want to ask...

Why is the fandom afraid to see hybrids and Perry's Yautja aspects taken in film?

Also there has been some controversy regaurding AvP to be canon with the Predator franchise and the Alien franchise... again, why can't fans accept this?

-Rakai'Thwei

SM

SM

#1
I think fans have trouble accepting comic/ novel concepts due to the inconsistency of these concepts.  Perry went down one road; this road has been ignored by the current publishing team.

Also even before this, some people reject ideas simply because they don't like them.

In Alien it's easier to ignore the AvP film because of perceived continuity issues and the comics because of proven continuity issues.

RakaiThwei

RakaiThwei

#2
Quote from: SM on Mar 26, 2007, 03:50:38 AM
I think fans have trouble accepting comic/ novel concepts due to the inconsistency of these concepts.  Perry went down one road; this road has been ignored by the current publishing team.

I can understand that since Shirely had literally changed the base of what Perry had put down (to my dismay, Hish'Que-Ten are now on Wikipedia). Personally, I do not like the Hish-- they seem so far fetched and different from the Yautja in a very bad way, whom in my opinion are believable and are the TRUE Predators. Also, I believe that Yautja ARE canon since Paul Anderson had taken the aspects (or at least some) from the comics and maybe the novels.

Also, I have noticed that some of the fans have a strong predjuidice towards AvP because simply Anderson made it. I believe that AvP is canon with the Predator and Alien franchise...

Still questions of mine have not been answered.

-Rakai'Thwei

SM

SM

#3
I don't think it's anything to do with Anderson, personally.  I've read a lot of people saying they like Event Horizon, Mortal Kombat and Resident Evil.  He's become a target since the shoddiness of AvP, but beforehand, he had a fairly competent CV for this sort of thing.  I still love EH in spite of AvP.

Extroheal

Extroheal

#4
I have nothing against hybrids. I liked the Ripley clones, I liked the Queen giving birth, I liked the Newborn and I liked the Predalien. But I would not like a Predalien Queen. Maybe I've been playing AvP Extinction too much but I'm hostile to the idea of the Queen naturally borrowing DNA from its host. I think it would permanently dilute the species.

I like the Yautja and see nothing wrong with giving the Predators some character. However, I think the ideal Predators (like the ones in the movies) would not be the Yautja or the Hish but a combination of both. The Yautja are too honorable and the Hish are not honorable enough. I haven't read the AvP novels and I would only consider them canon if they didn't contradict the movie.

Wikipedia is supposed to be a completely unbiased resource so it should have descriptions for Yautja and Hish.

I agree with you that it's sad that some AvP fans won't accept anything new. Some of them probably with wish the Alien franchise died after Aliens and the Predator franchise died after Predator 2.

Darkness

Darkness

#5
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Mar 26, 2007, 03:34:07 AM
Also the whole idea of a PredAlien Queen seems to be something new to explore. Why do I see fans fearing and saying no to the idea? Is it because of Ressurrection's Newborn Alien?

Because it's not required. It wouldn't be any different than a regular Queen.

QuoteWhy is the fandom afraid to see hybrids and Perry's Yautja aspects taken in film?

Because comics/books aren't canon and conflict with what's already established in the movies.

QuoteAlso there has been some controversy regaurding AvP to be canon with the Predator franchise and the Alien franchise... again, why can't fans accept this?

Because of the countless continuity errors that were made. Maybe it's that AvP drifted too far away from the originals.

Quote from: RakaiThwei on Mar 26, 2007, 04:08:31 AM
Also, I have noticed that some of the fans have a strong predjuidice towards AvP because simply Anderson made it. I believe that AvP is canon with the Predator and Alien franchise...

A lot of people felt like that before AvP was released. A lot of people hated Paul Anderson before AvP and he's hated a lot more now because of AvP. I had seen most of his films before AvP came out. I thought they were okay so I didn't have a preference with him.

Dekapitator

Dekapitator

#6
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Mar 26, 2007, 03:34:07 AM
The whole honor thing which was introduced in Predator 2, some people choose to ignore flat out as if it were some bane.

I haven't seen one person who ignored that what has been presented in Predator 2. It's the "Yautja" (what a stupid name) type of honor that we ignore.

QuoteSome people have had issues with females being shown in the possible (but doubtful) Predator 3 movie.

Too much, too much and too much. * How about exploring the Predators' sexuality? The way they mate? Yeaaah, let's bring those burly Pred mommas from the comics to the bigs screen! Let us see them tossing the male Pred around while mating! The male Pred will still remain the ultimate bad ass anyway! (NOT!) Or, how about Predator society being presented in Predator3? Let's see two Predators making their spaceships while one would be telling the other one (in "Yautja" language of course!) "Hey buddy that's not the right wrench!" **...

Sarcasm aside, my point is that if you reveal too much and take away the mystery, what will you have left? I would pick the mysterious Pred from P1, or the belligerent and fascinating hunter from P2 anyday.

QuoteAlso AGAIN with the blooding and rank issues have, people STILL argue and debate about the Yautja being Unbloodeds in P1 (P2 is a different story).

Predator, not "Yautja".

QuoteWhy is the fandom afraid to see hybrids...?

I for one ain't. It would be quite interesting to see a Predator hunt down a predalien.

Quote...and Perry's Yautja aspects taken in film?
* Aspects? To hell with those! Let's see a whole Yautjan story: "Yautja comes to earth to battle the great samurai. Yautja somehow looses and samurai becomes immortal as he eats Pred... sorry, Yautja flesh!" (Hey, the Yautja HAS to loose, that's Hollywood!) **

Sarcasm aside (again), some people just do not like the whole "Yautja" concept. Why not remain with the original? Why change it? You can still bring something new without making such radical and contradicting changes. + The whole "Yautja" thing would only be new on the BIG SCREEN, they're already in the comics. I don't want "Yautjas", I want Predators.

(I hope that what I have written will not offend you in any way.)

RakaiThwei

RakaiThwei

#7
Quote from: Dekapitator on Mar 26, 2007, 04:46:01 PM
(I hope that what I have written will not offend you in any way.)

Actually, you kinda did-- since I do consider Yautja to be canon weither people like it or not... and sarcasm I did not appriciate either. However, I will let this go since I don't want any drama here. Your opinion is your opinion and you are entitled to it...

I am now encouraged to write an essay on how unstable the fandom is (no offense to fellow fans) because of how many arguments ensue between fans.

-Rakai'Thwei

Darkness

Darkness

#8
QuoteActually, you kinda did-- since I do consider Yautja to be canon weither people like it or not...

But how is it? It's never been said in any film and I doubt it ever will be.

RakaiThwei

RakaiThwei

#9
Keyword in I, meaning me alone. I kinda grew up looking at the Predators as heroes instead of villains as the movies portrayed them to be, so when I read the novels which Perry wrote-- I accepted them as canon because of my love for the Predators as heroes, not villains.

-Rakai'Thwei

Vader the White

Vader the White

#10
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Mar 26, 2007, 04:08:31 AM
(to my dismay, Hish'Que-Ten are now on Wikipedia)

I only found the term once, and that is on the Predator (Alien) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predator_%28alien%29) page.

I would say Yuajta... crud, I misspelled it, I mean Yautja because to everyone else outsdie the forums would say "WTF?" and I can't pronouce it or spell it. It's easier to say Predator or Pred.

I think Yautja is canon.

How do you pronouce it? And the other name, that's impossible to pronouce unless you can make sounds that are humanally impossible.

SM

SM

#11
'Yautja' as a term, is about as canon as 'Linguafoeda Acheronsis'.

Someone once wrote into DH complaining about the depiction of Predators in a certain series and used the term 'yautja' and the letter col editor responded with 'what?'

RakaiThwei

RakaiThwei

#12
Dark Magician and I agree on Yautja!  ;D Awesome.

To answer your question Dark, Yautja is most likely prenounced as YOWT-JAH.

-Rakai'Thwei

Pax

Pax

#13
Personally, my problem with AvP wasn't Anderson - I kinda liked his other movies and I had hoped he'd do a good job.  But as it turned out, he just wanted to use the franchise to get his ridicious super-pyramid theories into a movie.  Every single pitch for the AvP movie prior to Anderson were in space, in the future, because you can't just let Aliens loose on Earth.  It just ain't right.  But oh, no, according to Anderson, they've been here for thousands of years, along with our super awesome Predator overlords.  Surely you can't be in favor of the AvP movie - even in the context of the Yautja and blooding stuff from Prey it's all wrong.  Scar blooded himself, Lex was an insultingly watered down version of Machiko, and the Predators themselves were reduced to Stargate characters.

I may have my own ideas about the origins of the Aliens and Predators, but that's a good thing - that's the kind of creativity that their kind of mysterious, open-ended stories promote.  Even though I think the word Yautja sounds kinda dumb and I think hogtying the Aliens and the Predators so closely together takes away from both's coolness, I'm still okay with all Perry's business.  At the end of the day, it was a good story.  The AvP movie is just silliness.

Besides, after Alien3, Alien:R, and AvP, this community is an oft-abuse group, repeatedly smacked around by Fox as they exploit our love of these franchises for a cheap buck.

-Pax

RIJOENPIAL

RIJOENPIAL

#14
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Mar 26, 2007, 10:43:10 PM
Keyword in I, meaning me alone. I kinda grew up looking at the Predators as heroes instead of villains as the movies portrayed them to be, so when I read the novels which Perry wrote-- I accepted them as canon because of my love for the Predators as heroes, not villains.

-Rakai'Thwei

Rakai'Thwei, 'Canon' is what is established as continuity by Fox... The AVP Comics and novels based on Predator is not considered in-continuity...As far as Fox is concerned, only what was established in P1 and 2 and now AVP is considered 'canon', meaning the 'real' Predator stories, whether you like it or not... It is like the Batman movies: though I liked the first two and Batman Begins, and was somewhat OK with the other two (just a different, lighter take on the Bat world, I guess...), but i never for once confused them and the comics from which they spawned...Denny O'Neil, former Bat editor, said that he did not have anything against the movies, whichever they were, just adding that DC and him were making comics, and Warner was making movies... However, it is common knowledge that the canon is the comics, not the movies... unlike here in the Pred/Alien world, where the comics were spawned from the movies...they surely enriched the Pred culture and background, but they are a 'pocket universe' no less...

Hope this helps a bit...

About the fandom hostility amidst themselves, it is quite normal, I guess...Different POV's usually generate discussions, basically because we all have the same facts, but each on of us, we interpret them differently... Nothing to worry about... Some get more irate and frustrated when they fail to ge their point across, or are misinterpreted, or they feel offended by some remarks... But that is normal... When we feel passionate about something, with passion comes violence, though, thankfully, this violence only gets verbal...  ;) 

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