Has AvPR improved wih age?

Started by Perfect-Organism, Mar 25, 2015, 03:59:06 PM

Author
Has AvPR improved wih age? (Read 82,726 times)

predxeno

predxeno

#180
Regardless of whether AVPR is rubbish or not, it deserves the same thing every other movie does; the opportunity to succeed or fail in a balanced and fair critique, not one created by hatred in the public opinion.

MrSpaceJockey

MrSpaceJockey

#181
You seem fixated on AvP-R's poor reception being a result of public opinion.  And you never thought to consider where the public opinion came from?  Please don't discredit people who dislike the film by essentially calling them band-wagoners.  I think after the disappointment many people apparently found the first Alien vs Predator to be, logically, they would want a superior sequel, not something to hate on!

It had the opportunity to be good, but its poor reception arose because that how individuals, yes individuals, felt it deserved - not because AvP-R is not a victim of some kind of discrimination or conspiracy. 

predxeno

predxeno

#182
I don't think that poor public opinion is the only reason it's bad, but I do believe that it is the reason many people try to turn trivial details that would have been ignored in other movies into big problems.

whiterabbit

whiterabbit

#183
Wow so this is where all the action is.

Allow me to enter my 2-cents. I actually like avpr, even though that's not saying much as I do have to put it at the end of the entire alien-predator-avp franchise movie list. I felt it was an honest attempt at making an entertaining movie while taking rather hefty risks. Of course many mistakes were made but none of it was done on purpose or maligned the rest of the series.

First off, they screwed the pooch on the lighting. What ever it was, it doomed this film. The next thing, people were clamoring for a hard R movie; not the PG-13 get as many butts in the seats AVP. So the bros upped the graphic violence and gore. They crossed the pregnant women in peril line and once again doomed the film. That type of violence was simply not palatable to the average movie goer and was on top of axing a kid on screen. Personally this is a movie about horrible things and it did bother me a little bit but for most people it was way too much and they should have known better. The third problem, the gestation of the alien was way too fast and that is entirely the fault of a poor script.

The skinning thing, it flat out doesn't matter. This a predator after all, maybe he killed, skinned and hanged the corpse as a warning to stay the f**k away from the area. Of course no one understood how to read the warning. :P

The dialog, again, so what. It's a hick town, "dale you too stupid to talk" and "the government doesn't lie to people" is exactly what I'd expect the people there to talk like. The sewer, ambush, hospital (until the helipad) and final solution was done well. The cgi blood splatter was absolutely atrocious and alone doomed the film as well. They could have did without the teen angst as well and no one cared about the people in the film either. Once again that is due to a poor script.

So yea it is a bad movie but it is not absolute shit.

TheBATMAN

TheBATMAN

#184
All I will say is that in the Strause Brothers' defence, if you get the chance to direct your first ever feature film after trying to break into that position from a visual effects background, and that film happens to be a match between two of your favourite sci-fi franchises, you are going to say yes - no matter how low the budget is and how abysmal the script is. Anyone who says otherwise would be lying.

The fault with this movie lies with Shane Salerno - the writer. I doubt even big-name directors could have done much with the storyline he envisioned. The Strause Brothers made mistakes, big ones, but it was their first feature, a learning experience and they knew before they even started they had an impossible job.

And the skinned body was put in without much thinking behind it as a way to pacify all the people who moaned about it being absent in the first film.

AVPR is an abysmal film, but AVP laid the groundwork that made it practically impossible to succeed and that's why I believe the AVP vs AVPR debate is not a fair one.

HuDaFuK

HuDaFuK

#185
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 03, 2016, 02:45:38 AMRegardless of whether AVPR is rubbish or not, it deserves the same thing every other movie does; the opportunity to succeed or fail in a balanced and fair critique, not one created by hatred in the public opinion.

AVP:R is essentially universally bad. It has almost no redeeming features. If it's hated by the public, it's because it's an appalling film.

As for the implication that only band-wagoners dislike it, I saw it before any reviews had had the chance to sour my opinion of it. And I still thought it was one of the single worst big-budget movies I have ever seen.

predxeno

predxeno

#186
No one is questioning your opinion of it, but it's still a point that people let public hatred have an effect on their judgment of the film.  In addition to the skinning example I have heard, there is also much controversy about the final battle when Chet let Wolf take off his mask; despite the fact that this scene was written as an homage to the previous film, fans still bash the movie for it as well while worse homages in other stories get a free pass.

MrSpaceJockey

MrSpaceJockey

#187
"Fans still bash the movie for it as well while worse homages in other stories get a free pass"

Seriously, who are these fans?  Stop acting like you're the single righteous one who truly judges films fairly, and putting everyone else into some generalized category.  Unless you've conducted a survey, and have evidence that every fan who disliked AvP-R doesn't dislike those other movies (which you put under an incredibly vague umbrella) and that every fan who gives free passes doesn't give AvP-R a free pass either, you should really stop putting forth this "Everyone hates AvP-R because they want to!" malarkey.

If you're point is actually, "Some people hate AvP-R because they want to!," then fine, that is valid, but no more relevant to this thread than "Some people love AvP-R because they want to!"

predxeno

predxeno

#188
Sorry, I probably should have been more specific and said some fans choose to bash the film for that reason; I did not mean to imply all fans did it so I apologize if you felt I was referring to you when I said that.

Randomizer

Randomizer

#189
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 03, 2016, 11:29:03 AM
The next thing, people were clamoring for a hard R movie; not the PG-13 get as many butts in the seats AVP. So the bros upped the graphic violence and gore. They crossed the pregnant women in peril line and once again doomed the film. That type of violence was simply not palatable to the average movie goer and was on top of axing a kid on screen. Personally this is a movie about horrible things and it did bother me a little bit but for most people it was way too much and they should have known better.

I found that scene as unnecessary violence, but I don't really consider it disgusting/horrible/whatever.

Quote from: TheBATMAN on Jan 03, 2016, 02:54:25 PM
AVPR is an abysmal film, but AVP laid the groundwork that made it practically impossible to succeed and that's why I believe the AVP vs AVPR debate is not a fair one.

Right, let's think about other directions AVPR could take: Earth or outer space. Maybe have the ship return to the Predator homeworld (or at least a world deep under their influence) and have the Predalien slaughter other Predators? Or it would be the exact opposite of AVPR: over-powered Alien and canon fodder Predators?

Think about it people !

TheBATMAN

TheBATMAN

#190
Quote from: Randomizer on Jan 03, 2016, 07:14:12 PM
Right, let's think about other directions AVPR could take: Earth or outer space. Maybe have the ship return to the Predator homeworld (or at least a world deep under their influence) and have the Predalien slaughter other Predators? Or it would be the exact opposite of AVPR: over-powered Alien and canon fodder Predators?

Think about it people !

Tell that to Shane Salerno, not me.

predxeno

predxeno

#191
Quote from: Randomizer on Jan 03, 2016, 07:14:12 PM
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Jan 03, 2016, 02:54:25 PM
AVPR is an abysmal film, but AVP laid the groundwork that made it practically impossible to succeed and that's why I believe the AVP vs AVPR debate is not a fair one.

Right, let's think about other directions AVPR could take: Earth or outer space. Maybe have the ship return to the Predator homeworld (or at least a world deep under their influence) and have the Predalien slaughter other Predators? Or it would be the exact opposite of AVPR: over-powered Alien and canon fodder Predators?

Think about it people !

Not saying that's a bad idea, but I think the producers wanted the movie to have human characters in it; after all, humans are a staple in most AVP stories and any type of movie without them likely wouldn't do well at the box office (not that AVPR ever did despite that).

Randomizer

Randomizer

#192
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 03, 2016, 10:53:17 PM
Quote from: Randomizer on Jan 03, 2016, 07:14:12 PM
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Jan 03, 2016, 02:54:25 PM
AVPR is an abysmal film, but AVP laid the groundwork that made it practically impossible to succeed and that's why I believe the AVP vs AVPR debate is not a fair one.

Right, let's think about other directions AVPR could take: Earth or outer space. Maybe have the ship return to the Predator homeworld (or at least a world deep under their influence) and have the Predalien slaughter other Predators? Or it would be the exact opposite of AVPR: over-powered Alien and canon fodder Predators?

Think about it people !

Not saying that's a bad idea, but I think the producers wanted the movie to have human characters in it; after all, humans are a staple in most AVP stories and any type of movie without them likely wouldn't do well at the box office (not that AVPR ever did despite that).

That's what I thought too...seems like we couldn't delay the inevitable.

Quote from: TheBATMAN on Jan 03, 2016, 07:46:35 PM
Tell that to Shane Salerno, not me.

Any contact number?  :)

HuDaFuK

HuDaFuK

#193
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 03, 2016, 10:53:17 PMNot saying that's a bad idea, but I think the producers wanted the movie to have human characters in it; after all, humans are a staple in most AVP stories and any type of movie without them likely wouldn't do well at the box office (not that AVPR ever did despite that).

An AVP film needs human characters. Even a 90-minute movie would get boring without them. I don't really want lots of subtitled Predator dialogue because it humanises them too much. They should remain mysterious and unintelligible, except when they want to be.

whiterabbit

whiterabbit

#194
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 04, 2016, 08:45:28 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 03, 2016, 10:53:17 PMNot saying that's a bad idea, but I think the producers wanted the movie to have human characters in it; after all, humans are a staple in most AVP stories and any type of movie without them likely wouldn't do well at the box office (not that AVPR ever did despite that).

An AVP film needs human characters. Even a 90-minute movie would get boring without them. I don't really want lots of subtitled Predator dialogue because it humanises them too much. They should remain mysterious and unintelligible, except when they want to be.
Dude, an Alien vs Predator movie sans humans could actually work. Both creatures have personalities. Hell the problem with both AVP movies are the people in it. Humans need to just get the f**k out of the way and Let Them Fight! :P Though with little to no dialog it had better have one hell of a visual director.



However one good thing about AVPr, the predator kept it's losing streak alive.

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