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Author Topic: Spoilers: Xenomorph origin revealed  (Read 26503 times)

mexicoisfun
Mar 21, 2017, 02:52:25 PM
Reply #225 on: Mar 21, 2017, 02:52:25 PM
Cameron turned the aliens into a species. They were things not made by the hand of nature, or God let's say it that way for those who are believers.

The alien was basically an indestructible (regenerated over and over again when hurt or mutilated) machine powered by acid, created by a superior race who probably evolved too and trascended their own organic nature (this leads to the very Derelict ship), and whose sole purpose was to eradicated human beings, apparently.

The mystery of the Derelict being another biomech entity that produced the aliens (the eggs) was what truly elevated the also mystery of the alien to actual satisfying levels, not reducing the alien to a natural species similar to insects, controlled by a hive minds, regardless they are weapons or not.

Each one to their own anyway. One of the good things of the alien universe was, precisely, how open It's always been to speculation. Some of us oldest fans saw it the Giger's way to perfectly fit what the creature looked like by '79 The younger generations preferred Cameron's simple approach. Ok that's fine too I guess

Anyways, everything points out to the possibility (Scott' new lore for alien) that our "Nature Boy" David has come to stay, so..

When was the alien depicted as indestructible, or able to regenerate, or powered by acid? I never saw that in any of the movies. When was the Derelict show as being biomech? Furthermore, when was the ship show producing eggs? I think you're in la la land


426Buddy
Mar 21, 2017, 02:59:04 PM
Reply #226 on: Mar 21, 2017, 02:59:04 PM
A lot of people have misconceptions when it comes to Alien.





Imbrie
Mar 21, 2017, 03:16:43 PM
Reply #227 on: Mar 21, 2017, 03:16:43 PM
Cameron turned the aliens into a species. They were things not made by the hand of nature, or God let's say it that way for those who are believers.

The alien was basically an indestructible (regenerated over and over again when hurt or mutilated) machine powered by acid, created by a superior race who probably evolved too and trascended their own organic nature (this leads to the very Derelict ship), and whose sole purpose was to eradicated human beings, apparently.

The mystery of the Derelict being another biomech entity that produced the aliens (the eggs) was what truly elevated the also mystery of the alien to actual satisfying levels, not reducing the alien to a natural species similar to insects, controlled by a hive minds, regardless they are weapons or not.

Each one to their own anyway. One of the good things of the alien universe was, precisely, how open It's always been to speculation. Some of us oldest fans saw it the Giger's way to perfectly fit what the creature looked like by '79 The younger generations preferred Cameron's simple approach. Ok that's fine too I guess

Anyways, everything points out to the possibility (Scott' new lore for alien) that our "Nature Boy" David has come to stay, so..

When was the alien depicted as indestructible, or able to regenerate, or powered by acid? I never saw that in any of the movies. When was the Derelict show as being biomech? Furthermore, when was the ship show producing eggs? I think you're in la la land

Fernandito's clearly watching a different movie or creating his own cut.


CainsSon
Mar 21, 2017, 03:32:51 PM
Reply #228 on: Mar 21, 2017, 03:32:51 PM
Cameron turned the aliens into a species. They were things not made by the hand of nature, or God let's say it that way for those who are believers.

The alien was basically an indestructible (regenerated over and over again when hurt or mutilated) machine powered by acid, created by a superior race who probably evolved too and trascended their own organic nature (this leads to the very Derelict ship), and whose sole purpose was to eradicated human beings, apparently.

The mystery of the Derelict being another biomech entity that produced the aliens (the eggs) was what truly elevated the also mystery of the alien to actual satisfying levels, not reducing the alien to a natural species similar to insects, controlled by a hive minds, regardless they are weapons or not.

Each one to their own anyway. One of the good things of the alien universe was, precisely, how open It's always been to speculation. Some of us oldest fans saw it the Giger's way to perfectly fit what the creature looked like by '79 The younger generations preferred Cameron's simple approach. Ok that's fine too I guess

Anyways, everything points out to the possibility (Scott' new lore for alien) that our "Nature Boy" David has come to stay, so..

When was the alien depicted as indestructible, or able to regenerate, or powered by acid? I never saw that in any of the movies. When was the Derelict show as being biomech? Furthermore, when was the ship show producing eggs? I think you're in la la land

The whole idea is that it is "alien" and we cannot understand the full reach of it's biomechanical nature. One of the reasons the film has inspired equal intellectual debate and the usual, is because Scott and the filmmakers included all sorts of maybes, in the details of ALIEN, so you can see it in a very straightforward manner but also interpret more. This is one of the ways its such a smart movie. There are all kinds of things in the interaction between the text of the script and the design interacting with the characters and the text, and also subtext, that add a depth to it. Scott has spoken in a good deal of detail over the years addressing this stuff. The freudian elements to Giger's work and how the Alien makes the male a female when it reproduces etc etc. The Biomechanics arent treated any differently. There are hints the Alien may be communicating with the ship and naming the computer 'Mother' is no mistake.
So the Biomechanics are just another piece of that - ambiguous AND deliberate.

The Space Jockey was supposed to be an Engineer after Prometheus, but they also LEFT SOME ROOM to ponder here, because Shaw and the films is asking "Who made them?" It is possible to consider that the Space Jockey's are a race the Engineers modeled themselves off of, but overall if you want things to be straight forward, its an Engineer in a suit, and I do think that was intended. Although now, it seems they may change that.

"God does not build in straight lines." - Holloway

I say, beware of trying to force an animal to walk a straight line, that is meant to roam free.

« Last Edit: Mar 21, 2017, 03:45:10 PM by CainsSon »

426Buddy
Mar 21, 2017, 03:44:18 PM
Reply #229 on: Mar 21, 2017, 03:44:18 PM
So basically you can pretty much read anything into the ambiguity of alien?

I know that Scott, O'Bannon, and the producers never intended the creature to be indestructible, far from it actually. Anyone who has spent time on the Strange Shapes blog will know that  ;).

I really dislike that "God doesn't build in straight lines" quote. Straight lines occur in nature all the time.


« Last Edit: Mar 21, 2017, 03:48:03 PM by 426Buddy »

Necronomicon II
Mar 21, 2017, 03:47:29 PM
Reply #230 on: Mar 21, 2017, 03:47:29 PM
Perhaps it pleased the Gods that the Engineers modelled themselves in their image, or perhaps it was a matter of possessing the image of the Gods, along with stealing their technology; great impostures.
Man, I'd kill to see something like this -




CainsSon
Mar 21, 2017, 03:49:41 PM
Reply #232 on: Mar 21, 2017, 03:49:41 PM
So basically you can pretty much read anything into the ambiguity of alien?

I know that Scott, O'Bannon, and the producers never intended the creature to be indestructible, far from it actually. Anyone who has spent time on the Strange Shapes blog will know that  ;).

I really dislike that "God doesn't build in straight lines" quote. Straight lines occur in nature all the time.


Its a metaphor. Its not meant to be taken literally. That's the point. That humans have a flawed need to take things literally and make them seem more controlled.

Ambiguity doesn't imply that you can read ANYTHING into Alien. I didn't say that. Come on. I said the ambiguous parts are meant to be ambiguous.

I didnt say the alien is indestructible. That was someone else. I was just trying to mediate.

When I first saw Alien, I thought the monster seemed to have 'evolved' in deep time to perfectly hunt space travellers. Like all of its defenses evolved to make it this perfect space pest. I never imagined it as a weapon or a creature with a place of origin. I liked the idea of this being that's evolution made it strictly to complicate space travel.


« Last Edit: Mar 21, 2017, 03:55:30 PM by CainsSon »



Necronomicon II
Mar 21, 2017, 04:00:10 PM
Reply #235 on: Mar 21, 2017, 04:00:10 PM
Here's hoping that the Cathedral/Citadel has some Giger delights...



rabidranger
Mar 21, 2017, 04:19:28 PM
Reply #237 on: Mar 21, 2017, 04:19:28 PM
I think Ash's description of the xenomorph is definitive:

"You still don't understand what you're dealing with, do you? Perfect organism. Its structural perfection is matched only by its hostility."

The question that arises and that Scott seem to want answer is who would create such a thing and why?


mexicoisfun
Mar 21, 2017, 04:25:37 PM
Reply #238 on: Mar 21, 2017, 04:25:37 PM
Cameron turned the aliens into a species. They were things not made by the hand of nature, or God let's say it that way for those who are believers.

The alien was basically an indestructible (regenerated over and over again when hurt or mutilated) machine powered by acid, created by a superior race who probably evolved too and trascended their own organic nature (this leads to the very Derelict ship), and whose sole purpose was to eradicated human beings, apparently.

The mystery of the Derelict being another biomech entity that produced the aliens (the eggs) was what truly elevated the also mystery of the alien to actual satisfying levels, not reducing the alien to a natural species similar to insects, controlled by a hive minds, regardless they are weapons or not.

Each one to their own anyway. One of the good things of the alien universe was, precisely, how open It's always been to speculation. Some of us oldest fans saw it the Giger's way to perfectly fit what the creature looked like by '79 The younger generations preferred Cameron's simple approach. Ok that's fine too I guess

Anyways, everything points out to the possibility (Scott' new lore for alien) that our "Nature Boy" David has come to stay, so..

When was the alien depicted as indestructible, or able to regenerate, or powered by acid? I never saw that in any of the movies. When was the Derelict show as being biomech? Furthermore, when was the ship show producing eggs? I think you're in la la land

The whole idea is that it is "alien" and we cannot understand the full reach of it's biomechanical nature. One of the reasons the film has inspired equal intellectual debate and the usual, is because Scott and the filmmakers included all sorts of maybes, in the details of ALIEN, so you can see it in a very straightforward manner but also interpret more. This is one of the ways its such a smart movie. There are all kinds of things in the interaction between the text of the script and the design interacting with the characters and the text, and also subtext, that add a depth to it. Scott has spoken in a good deal of detail over the years addressing this stuff. The freudian elements to Giger's work and how the Alien makes the male a female when it reproduces etc etc. The Biomechanics arent treated any differently. There are hints the Alien may be communicating with the ship and naming the computer 'Mother' is no mistake.
So the Biomechanics are just another piece of that - ambiguous AND deliberate.

The Space Jockey was supposed to be an Engineer after Prometheus, but they also LEFT SOME ROOM to ponder here, because Shaw and the films is asking "Who made them?" It is possible to consider that the Space Jockey's are a race the Engineers modeled themselves off of, but overall if you want things to be straight forward, its an Engineer in a suit, and I do think that was intended. Although now, it seems they may change that.

"God does not build in straight lines." - Holloway

I say, beware of trying to force an animal to walk a straight line, that is meant to roam free.

Your response doesn't address my questions.

When was the alien shown to be indestructible?
When did the alien regenerate?
What evidence shows the alien is powered by acid?
When was the derelict ship shown to be biomech?
When was the alien ship shown producing eggs?

Your response is basically "You can interpret anything because in Alien we cannot understand the full reach of it's biomechanical nature". Well if we can't understand it, then we certainly can't jump to conclusions regarding ships producing eggs, indestructible aliens, regeneration and anything like that. We can only base our understanding on the facts presented in the films. Anything else is fan fiction and speculation until proven canon.

Regarding your Space Jockey/Engineer comments. I don't like the retcon RS did with these guys. Maybe there is another race that is the giant "Space Jockey" seen in Alien, or maybe they are just Engineers in suits who somehow shrunk in size. I don't like the meddling RS is doing mainly because I don't see Alien as his creation. The story is all O'Bannon and his brain child.

If RS really gave a crap he would have kept technology roughly the same between the prequels and Alien.


Pvt. Himmel
Mar 21, 2017, 04:26:59 PM
Reply #239 on: Mar 21, 2017, 04:26:59 PM
I think Ash's description of the xenomorph is definitive:

"You still don't understand what you're dealing with, do you? Perfect organism. Its structural perfection is matched only by its hostility."

The question that arises and that Scott seem to want answer is who would create such a thing and why?
You admire it?


 

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