don't you just feel the inconsistency?

Started by YorgosChrys, Jun 01, 2010, 01:37:57 AM

Author
don't you just feel the inconsistency? (Read 5,072 times)

YorgosChrys

hello everyone...so this is my maiden post ...
i couldnt believe there are so many people who, liike me, spend so much of their time thinking and discussing alien film characters before i came across AvP galaxy...
Anyway IMO what really makes or breaks a good alien character is believability(if there is such a word) and consistency...and frankly i believe the aliens and the preds are lacking a bit of both...
So lemme analyze this further(pour some tea into that cup, skin up a fat joint and put on your glasses this is gonna be a long reading)...now b4 we start i wanna make clear that im pumping most if not all of my info from the movie franchises since i really am no fan of either the Pred or the aliens comics...thinking of it ii only have the judge dredd vs both our beloved critters series...but thats mostly due to the fact that im a dredd fan
so here goes:
Aliens:
1) How did those critters ever make it off their home planet? More so how do they even manage interstellar travel ever since? I'm guessing that the most probable answer is that they do it by sneaking aboard the vessels of other unaware intelligent races that happen by a planet the critters are infesting...then they hijack the thing by slaughtering or harvesting the unsuspecting crew...AND THEN WHAT? If the said vessel is flying on autopilot to its destination then fine there is a very slim chance the critters will survive the trip and jump the poor guys servicing the shuttle at the destination starport and finallly start a whole new infestation...but still...if the americans could manage adequate airport security under the inspired leadership of mr. Bush(WHATTAGUY) then you'd expect other more advanced space faring races to know a thing or two about protecting themselves against such incidents...now if that vessel i mentioned was flying on manual i guess the critters are screwed since they dont really strike me as adept space pilots. And that brings me to my ultimate point on Aliens...they could never have come so far or achieve no 1 threat status in the real world...because in the end no matter how cunning or ferocious or agile they are just animals and they wouldnt stand a chance against a group of determined armed people whether they be space marines or desert commandos or jungle rebels...please do bear in mind that thousands of years ago our ancestors survived and endured the ferocity of tigers that weighed half a ton and were armed with 5 inch claws and 15 inch tusks( the sabretooths)...and all that while dressed in their animal hide armor and armed with sticks and stones...
So to conclude on the aliens...though they are super cool as a concept they are also severely overestimed...end of story
The Predators:
before i even start on them i gotta ask this...PUSSYFACE? ROFLMAO...i'm new to this so i would like to know which one that is...though i think i can recall danny glover calling the pred in the second movie that...dunno its been a while since i last saw that movie...anyways let's cut to the chase already...
I'm guessing my main objection to predators as a race is the collision of their apparent social structure with their advancement in science and technology...I mean as far as we know they live in a tribal society organised in clans and their favourite if not their only pastime is hunting down an assortment of unlucky creatures to collect their skull and spine for their trophy walls...i mean i never saw a pred dreessed in nerdy goggles and a white robe sweating over tons o paper and countless calculations trying to improve on the plasma caster or trying to make the netgun shoulder mounted...nor did i ever see the predator architect who is responsible for designing all those fancy pyramids or that nice little sandstone villa that pred guy in that AvP movie lived ...or in fact we see iin the latest pred movie that the whole pred planet is a huge game reserve...i wonder then where all the factories are that build all that weaponry or their space ships for that matter...and if there are such factories who's running them? The tribal elders? Gimme a break! So i'm guessing there are predator industrialists too! I can just picture them in sleek suits, neck ties and all with fat cigars sticking outta their mouths...and since robotics dont seem to be the strong point of pred tech I'm guessing that there are blue collar preds too working the factories...wouldnt wanna be there when they go on strike...
I think you get where i am going with this...a society like the predatory one where everyone is labeled and ranked by their predatory skillls is hardly one that would breed scientists or architects or industrial tycoons...so it would be more believable if they lacked all the technology that accompanies them...they would be very adept tribal warriors or hunters...they would have the ability to build themselves exquisite weapons like bows and arrrows or spears or handaxes from natural materials...and no cloaking devices or thermal visions or wrist thingies...Now they would still pose a threat to the unsuspecting or the unarmed but that's about all there'd be to it! Not to mention that lacking space travelling capability they could have never visited! So we would not have encountered them until rather deep into the future where a human mission would accidentallly land on their planet or something and there the unsuspecting crew would be picked off one by one by the adept predators and their skilled use of their ancient yet simple technology. Still once word would spread of the massacre i'm guessing the humans would return better prepared...and pretty soon we'd only be seeing preds during our weekend tours at the ET Zoo ...
Phew...well that's it...
Excuse my weird english i'm greek...(oh, well in case you are wondering im doing just fine financially...see i even have the money to pay for a decent internet service...and i have the time to waste typing huge posts...so bankruptcy is not just around the corner for me et)

SM

SM

#1
QuoteI'm guessing that the most probable answer is that they do it by sneaking aboard the vessels of other unaware intelligent races that happen by a planet the critters are infesting...then they hijack the thing by slaughtering or harvesting the unsuspecting crew...AND THEN WHAT?

Eggs are left behind to infect the boarding party and it starts again.

QuoteAnd that brings me to my ultimate point on Aliens...they could never have come so far or achieve no 1 threat status in the real world...because in the end no matter how cunning or ferocious or agile they are just animals and they wouldnt stand a chance against a group of determined armed people whether they be space marines or desert commandos or jungle rebels...please do bear in mind that thousands of years ago our ancestors survived and endured the ferocity of tigers that weighed half a ton and were armed with 5 inch claws and 15 inch tusks( the sabretooths)...and all that while dressed in their animal hide armor and armed with sticks and stones...

Yes but sabretooth tigers etc. didn't increase their number in proportion to the reduction in the numbers of the humans.  If a wild animal is well fed, it's not likely to attack unless provoked.  An Alien will kill you, or drag you back to the hive to be a host no matter what.  Slight difference.

However, yes if you have well drilled group, you can kill Aliens.  However, you will always have some greedy or misguided bugger who thinks they can be tamed and exploited, working against said group.

predxeno

I'll mention a few things from the literature.  I know that many of you don't consider it canon, but I'm saying it now to describe how they depict these issues and so that we can get ideas and think upon this "noncanon" information.  In the literature, the aliens are spread mainly by the predators, these predators infest worlds with these creatures to make more prey for hunting, though in their records they just claim that organisms from all across the universe just convergently evolved into these creatures.  It is also said that the Hish (a predator tribe) got many of their advanced technology by stealing it from other aliens.  They even enslaved some aliens from other planets to make new technology for them.

SM

SM

#3
In the comics, Aliens are generally spread by mankind (either accidently or on purpose) rather than Predators.

YorgosChrys

Quote from: SM on Jun 01, 2010, 01:52:36 AM
Quote
However, yes if you have well drilled group, you can kill Aliens.  However, you will always have some greedy or misguided bugger who thinks they can be tamed and exploited, working against said group.

That's the other thing that bothers me...How can aliens ever be more useful for exploitation than machines...all kinds of machines for all kinds of purposes that I'm sure a corporation like Weyland -Yutani would at that time in the future...they can perfom better they dont get paid you dont need to feed them and there's slightly less chance they'll kill you as soon as you look the other way ...

StrangeShape

Quote from: YorgosChrys on Jun 01, 2010, 04:55:25 PM

That's the other thing that bothers me...How can aliens ever be more useful for exploitation than machines...all kinds of machines for all kinds of purposes that I'm sure a corporation like Weyland -Yutani would at that time in the future...they can perfom better they dont get paid you dont need to feed them and there's slightly less chance they'll kill you as soon as you look the other way ...

Because its a perfect weapon. It eradicates all life like a nuclear bomb  but its quieter and somewhat better. And yet have the same result. Just fly over an area, drop few eggs and in few days the place will be a nest with everyone dead (see Aliens Book One, Book Two). That is EXACTLY why Ripley was fighting so hard so the organism wont get near Earth. The effects would be catastrophical. Armageddon. I like how the first Dark Horse series illustrates it and I think it would make a great movie with that premise. The aliens spread very fast and within days the entire Earth is overrun and people leave Earth is rescue ships/arks.

Oh yes, I forgot about the disaster of a movie called AVP:R which basically ruined the entire franchise and retconned the entire point of the series. Not only this movie showed that Ripley didnt have anything to worry about after all because the aliens didnt even spread past the town, but also showed that they can be easily contained and that you can even have an entire squad of aliens on earth running free and no infestation or major outbreak will happen. Silly Ripley for thinking they can be that dangerous. Sarcasm off

predxeno

Fair point, but make note that in the comics, there were many infected hosts that dispersed all over the globe.  The aliens, then, discreetly made hives and expanded.

Master

QuoteHow did those critters ever make it off their home planet? More so how do they even manage interstellar travel ever since? I'm guessing that the most probable answer is that they do it by sneaking aboard the vessels of other unaware intelligent races that happen by a planet the critters are infesting...

In the first Alien film the eggs were found in great number on derelict space ship. There is a theory (which I strongly support) that there in fact no Alien home planet, but insted they were designed by Jockeys (or other superior alien life form) as an ultimate bio-weapon. Unfortunately for their creators Aliens broke free and annihilated their "fathers".

QuotePUSSYFACE?
Fan nickname for P2 predator. He is called that way because of Danny Glover ;)

Quotei wonder then where all the factories are that build all that weaponry or their space ships for that matter...and if there are such factories who's running them?

Again there is no official data about that, but I think that on Predator homeworld (not game-reserve planet IS NOT homeworld) there are Predator scientists and industrial workers. Maybe there are different clans devoted to technology rather then to trophy hunt.

OmegaZilla

OmegaZilla

#8
Siiiiiimple answer resuming all of your points.

Science-Fiction.

There is nothing, literally, nothing that is supposed to be 100% realistic in Science-Fiction, because there is not only the Science, but also the Fiction.

SiL

Quote from: OmegaZilla on Jun 01, 2010, 07:07:29 PM
There is nothing, literally, nothing that is supposed to be 100% realistic in Science-Fiction
That is so bullshit I don't know where to start :P

Science Fiction doesn't necessarily mean fictional science -- just that it's fiction which uses science. Arthur C. Clarke sort'a spent an entire career trying to prove the point. Just because most popular sci-fi uses fantastical science doesn't mean it's the exclusive form of the genre.

SpaceMarines

Clarke makes some of the best science-fiction I've ever read. I was sad when he died.

SM

SM

#11
I only got into his stuff after he died.  He had some absolutely brilliant and visionary ideas.

QuoteThat's the other thing that bothers me...How can aliens ever be more useful for exploitation than machines...all kinds of machines for all kinds of purposes that I'm sure a corporation like Weyland -Yutani would at that time in the future...they can perfom better they dont get paid you dont need to feed them and there's slightly less chance they'll kill you as soon as you look the other way ...

Answered your own question.

After your initial investment in Alien containment technology, you can drop eggs off anywhere you like and sit back and wait for them to do their job.  They don't need to be paid or fed either and infrastructure is left largely intact.

StrangeShape

Quote from: predxeno on Jun 01, 2010, 05:24:13 PM
Fair point, but make note that in the comics, there were many infected hosts that dispersed all over the globe.  The aliens, then, discreetly made hives and expanded.

Still, there was plenty of wildlife around. They should built more nests, a Queen should be born and nest in the woods and facehuggers and hundreds of eggs should be let loose to infect all the life around. It would be unstoppable. Like In Aliens Book One. In AVPR the aliens were very convenient and didnt move past the city. Not a single egg or facehugger was made either. Thats terribly nice and convenient too. The only way they couldve multiply was only if Mr. Mutant did the job himself. Those AVPR aliens were very considerate. Like I said, Ripley shouldnt be worried at all.

predxeno

In the books, the aliens had the ability to get smarter continuously.  The aliens in AVPR were most likely not that intelligent and instead of dispersing into uninfected areas, they stayed in one town until everyone was dead.  Unfortunatley, for them by the time that was done they were part of the dead as well.

SM

SM

#14
Dispersing is pointless since humans are ideal hosts, so the Aliens stay close to them.

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