A way to make Blomkamp's Alien work without retconning Alien 3 or Resurrection?

[irn]

Tonally, the whole idea of Ripley losing everything she holds dear yet again is absolutely in place with the overriding theme of the heartless, bleak universe that the series has.

I'd love a new 'ALIENS' movie.  I think Blomkamp is a good choice to do it.  I can also see problem after problem after problem easily avoided by removing these 3 characters from his proposal and taking on a completely fresh cast from the outset.   I want to see another Great 'ALIENS' movie - not one that's divisive, damaging and shackled to fickle fan service.

I totally agree windebieste and HuDaFuK. It would be better to keep the integrity of the series rather than break off into chaotic timelines like it's some comic-book movie franchise. I honestly think a retcon would be the end of it. Fans would just be divided and passionately bicker and casual viewers just be confused and not know what the hell is going on with the stories. It would be an absolute cluster.

Dragging up Ripley and Hicks to satisfy childhood nostalgia seems nice but in reality it would be virtually guaranteed to disappoint anyway. It wont be Aliens 2 because that era is gone. Let's just leave Aliens as the near perfect film it was. Alien, Aliens and Alien3 was a fantastic story arc. AR too if you're that way inclined. Job done. Let's move on to new characters and new stories. The Alien universe is so vast and ripe for interesting tales.

[426Buddy]

I couldn't agree more with Irn, Huda, and Winde. I'm down for new stories in the alien universe, hopefully covenant will be scary and exciting in all the ways Prometheus wasn't while still keeping what did. work in Prometheus.

As for Blomkamp, I would love to see him tackle an AvP film.

[PsyKore]

One aspect I like about the series is its overarching dark tone. Also, it's more akin to real life in that anybody, right or wrong, unforgivably, can die. This is something I feel is lost on people when Alien 3 comes around; that this series for a long time before has been heartless and killed off many innocent and sometimes central characters. I will admit that Alien 3 accentuates it more; Hicks and Newt's death is jarring, but that's what life is like, and it is still very much in line with the ruthless nature of the prior films.

However, when you think about it, ALIENS is actually the darkest of them all, when you consider the amount of families that died at Hadley's Hope. I mean, it would have been a massacre, and no other film in the series has come close to depicting that brutality.

[𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔈𝔦𝔤𝔥𝔱𝔥 𝔓𝔞𝔰𝔰𝔢𝔫𝔤𝔢𝔯]

Alien, Aliens and Alien3 was a fantastic story arc.

That's right, it is. But the problem with that story arc is that Ripley wiped-out the Xenomorphs with her sacrifice. Where do you go after that?

It's highly unlikely that Fox will ever make a sequel to the rather unpopular Alien: Resurrection. And trying to shoe-horn-in another film between A3 and A:R with new characters and Aliens is just going to mess with the whole point of Alien 3 even more. At least Alien: Resurrection had the good grace to take place 200 years after Ripley's sacrifice even though it still weakens the previous entry to an extent. And Ridley Scott already has the prequel arena covered with new characters and aliens.

Ripley and Hicks are the two most popular characters in the franchise by far and both star in the series' most popular entry. Fox are in the business of making money from their films so from a financial perspective it makes perfect sense to bring those two characters back. Fox and their shareholders are simply not interested in investing north of a hundred-million-dollars in making films for a tiny hardcore fanbase in a small corner of the internet. No matter how loudly those fans may rant and rave or vehemently agree with each other.

[Perfect-Organism]

Alien, Aliens and Alien3 was a fantastic story arc.

That's right, it is. But the problem with that story arc is that Ripley wiped-out the Xenomorphs with her sacrifice. Where do you go after that?

It's highly unlikely that Fox will ever make a sequel to the rather unpopular Alien: Resurrection. And trying to shoe-horn-in another film between A3 and A:R with new characters and Aliens is just going to mess with the whole point of Alien 3 even more. At least Alien: Resurrection had the good grace to take place 200 years after Ripley's sacrifice even though it still weakens the previous entry to an extent. And Ridley Scott already has the prequel arena covered with new characters and aliens.

Ripley and Hicks are the two most popular characters in the franchise by far and both star in the series' most popular entry. Fox are in the business of making money from their films so from a financial perspective it makes perfect sense to bring those two characters back. Fox and their shareholders are simply not interested in investing north of a hundred-million-dollars in making films for a tiny hardcore fanbase in a small corner of the internet. No matter how loudly those fans may rant and rave or vehemently agree with each other.

Well said Eighth Passenger.  I understand what the Alien 3 fanboys are saying but in truth Alien 3 was far fetched from the get-go.  Nobody would be so stupid to leave eggs on the dropship unchecked before going to hypersleep.  Blomlamp's approach works not as fan service, but as the most logical way to continue the story.  This is from a continuity sense and financial sense.

[426Buddy]

There are infinite ways to bring the alien back after Alien3 that would be much better than retconning that whole film imo.

I don't think the Derelict was the only place in the universe that had alien eggs, unless Ridley's films specifically indicate otherwise.

Alien, Aliens and Alien3 was a fantastic story arc.

That's right, it is. But the problem with that story arc is that Ripley wiped-out the Xenomorphs with her sacrifice. Where do you go after that?

It's highly unlikely that Fox will ever make a sequel to the rather unpopular Alien: Resurrection. And trying to shoe-horn-in another film between A3 and A:R with new characters and Aliens is just going to mess with the whole point of Alien 3 even more. At least Alien: Resurrection had the good grace to take place 200 years after Ripley's sacrifice even though it still weakens the previous entry to an extent. And Ridley Scott already has the prequel arena covered with new characters and aliens.

Ripley and Hicks are the two most popular characters in the franchise by far and both star in the series' most popular entry. Fox are in the business of making money from their films so from a financial perspective it makes perfect sense to bring those two characters back. Fox and their shareholders are simply not interested in investing north of a hundred-million-dollars in making films for a tiny hardcore fanbase in a small corner of the internet. No matter how loudly those fans may rant and rave or vehemently agree with each other.

Well said Eighth Passenger.  I understand what the Alien 3 fanboys are saying but in truth Alien 3 was far fetched from the get-go.  Nobody would be so stupid to leave eggs on the dropship unchecked before going to hypersleep.  Blomlamp's approach works not as fan service, but as the most logical way to continue the story.  This is from a continuity sense and financial sense.

Yeah just those Alien3 fanboys that dont get it.  [/sarcasm]

I think a lot of those opposed to the retcon are fans of the franchise in general, not just the 3rd film and their opinions matter as much as anyone elses here, fanboy or otherwise.

[HuDaFuK]

Blomlamp's approach works not as fan service, but as the most logical way to continue the story.

Considering we have absolutely no idea how he actually intends to continue the story, that's a pretty big assumption.

[Perfect-Organism]

There are infinite ways to bring the alien back after Alien3 that would be much better than retconning that whole film imo.

I don't think the Derelict was the only place in the universe that had alien eggs, unless Ridley's films specifically indicate otherwise.

Alien, Aliens and Alien3 was a fantastic story arc.

That's right, it is. But the problem with that story arc is that Ripley wiped-out the Xenomorphs with her sacrifice. Where do you go after that?

It's highly unlikely that Fox will ever make a sequel to the rather unpopular Alien: Resurrection. And trying to shoe-horn-in another film between A3 and A:R with new characters and Aliens is just going to mess with the whole point of Alien 3 even more. At least Alien: Resurrection had the good grace to take place 200 years after Ripley's sacrifice even though it still weakens the previous entry to an extent. And Ridley Scott already has the prequel arena covered with new characters and aliens.

Ripley and Hicks are the two most popular characters in the franchise by far and both star in the series' most popular entry. Fox are in the business of making money from their films so from a financial perspective it makes perfect sense to bring those two characters back. Fox and their shareholders are simply not interested in investing north of a hundred-million-dollars in making films for a tiny hardcore fanbase in a small corner of the internet. No matter how loudly those fans may rant and rave or vehemently agree with each other.

Well said Eighth Passenger.  I understand what the Alien 3 fanboys are saying but in truth Alien 3 was far fetched from the get-go.  Nobody would be so stupid to leave eggs on the dropship unchecked before going to hypersleep.  Blomlamp's approach works not as fan service, but as the most logical way to continue the story.  This is from a continuity sense and financial sense.

Yeah just those Alien3 fanboys that dont get it.  [/sarcasm]

I think a lot of those opposed to the retcon are fans of the franchise in general, not just the 3rd film and their opinions matter as much as anyone elses here, fanboy or otherwise.

In truth, we're all fanboys and fangirls here.  That's not meant as a slight, and I don't know why everybody treats the term like an insult these days.  I honestly think that everybody's opinion here is valid.  People have valid reasons for why Alien 3 should not be retconned.  I have valid reasons for why it should be and that is my choice.  We all get tho choose our adventure...

Blomlamp's approach works not as fan service, but as the most logical way to continue the story.

Considering we have absolutely no idea how he actually intends to continue the story, that's a pretty big assumption.

I am working on the assumption that the basic premise involves disregarding Alien 3 and continuing with the main characters of Hicks, Ripley, and Newt.  That is what has been proposed thus far, and that is a premise that I am a proponent of.  I think it is a more logical continuation of the Aliens film.  Now can that basic premise be screwed up?  Absolutely.  I think it is in fact easier to screw up than to make a success of it.  But I am 100% open to the idea of trying.  There is more to gain then there is to lose.  It is my perspective and that is all.  I understand yours, and while I don't agree with it, I respect your right to hold it.

[g2vd]

Hey guys I have a idea that "should" make most of you totally happy...

What if Alien 5 retcons it's self at the end of the movie like say Total Recall? the film ends with a flash hinting that the whole thing was a dream Ripley 8 was having while she was in the tube but like Total Recall it's ambiguous and it's up to the Audience to decide what happened ehh, ehh ehh?

The Boo Hoo Brigade, eh?  Once again the anti-retconners are trying to provoke people with inflammatory language.   You know who one of the top members of that brigade is, right?  Your boy, Sir Ridley Scott.  The same guy you think is taking this series to bold new places, despite knowing nothing about Covenant.  He's producing Alien 5 .  He approved the script, made changes, said it's good.  He thinks it's a good idea, as well as a bunch of people over at Fox.  And let's not forget Sigourney Weaver.  You see, it's not just us crybabies who like this, but accomplished lifelong professionals.  Consider that.

To be perfectly honest it isn't like their opinions are worth anymore than anybody else's opinion just because they are Actors and Directors.

Something also to note is that Sigourney was the one at the time that wanted Ripley to die in Alien 3 and is the reason the character died in the first place. so if we go by the idea that their opinions are worth more than you're opinion does that mean you are wrong?

You're upset over losing A3?   I can sympathize.   It stings when a movie you love is rendered void.  That's how we felt when A3 virtually retconned the end of Aliens.   You want to yell at us HOW DOES IT FEEL!?   Now you know.

That really doesn't make any sense..if Aliens originally flashed forward to show the Sulaco nearing Earth Orbit, than yes you would have a point and Alien 3 would have "Virtually Retconned" Aliens completely. but the movies ending just had them getting into the Pods and preparing for the long journey home, all Alien 3 did was it continued the story and it took it into a new direction that is subjective and debatable as to whether or not that was the right direction to go, so really it didn't do any of this "Virtual Retconning" you are talking about. and even then if Alien 3 never happened than a sequel on principle would do the exact same thing which means a different sequel would have just "Virtually Retconned Everything" like Alien 3 did and made Aliens null and void so I kinda don't understand where you are going with this.

And if we go by that does this not mean Aliens "Virtually Retconned" Alien and made it null and void? does this not mean Aliens ruined Alien on the principle of it?

[Perfect-Organism]

Hey guys I have a idea that "should" make most of you totally happy...

What if Alien 5 retcons it's self at the end of the movie like say Total Recall? the film ends with a flash hinting that the whole thing was a dream Ripley 8 was having while she was in the tube but like Total Recall it's ambiguous and it's up to the Audience to decide what happened ehh, ehh ehh?

The Boo Hoo Brigade, eh?  Once again the anti-retconners are trying to provoke people with inflammatory language.   You know who one of the top members of that brigade is, right?  Your boy, Sir Ridley Scott.  The same guy you think is taking this series to bold new places, despite knowing nothing about Covenant.  He's producing Alien 5 .  He approved the script, made changes, said it's good.  He thinks it's a good idea, as well as a bunch of people over at Fox.  And let's not forget Sigourney Weaver.  You see, it's not just us crybabies who like this, but accomplished lifelong professionals.  Consider that.

To be perfectly honest it isn't like their opinions are worth anymore than anybody else's opinion just because they are Actors and Directors.

Something also to note is that Sigourney was the one at the time that wanted Ripley to die in Alien 3 and is the reason the character died in the first place. so if we go by the idea that their opinions are worth more than you're opinion does that mean you are wrong?

You're upset over losing A3?   I can sympathize.   It stings when a movie you love is rendered void.  That's how we felt when A3 virtually retconned the end of Aliens.   You want to yell at us HOW DOES IT FEEL!?   Now you know.

That really doesn't make any sense..if Aliens originally flashed forward to show the Sulaco nearing Earth Orbit, than yes you would have a point and Alien 3 would have "Virtually Retconned" Aliens completely. but the movies ending just had them getting into the Pods and preparing for the long journey home, all Alien 3 did was it continued the story and it took it into a new direction that is subjective and debatable as to whether or not that was the right direction to go, so really it didn't do any of this "Virtual Retconning" you are talking about. and even then if Alien 3 never happened than a sequel on principle would do the exact same thing which means a different sequel would have just "Virtually Retconned Everything" like Alien 3 did and made Aliens null and void so I kinda don't understand where you are going with this.

And if we go by that does this not mean Aliens "Virtually Retconned" Alien and made it null and void? does this not mean Aliens ruined Alien on the principle of it?

I think your Total Recall idea could be pretty cool if done right.  If the audience comes out of it asking itself what is real then the job would be well done.  But does that leave things open for additional sequels?

[HuDaFuK]

But does that leave things open for additional sequels?

While it almost inevitably will be, that kind of thinking should never be what drives the development of a movie. It should be a great film in and of itself, first any foremost.

[Perfect-Organism]

That's true.  I can't argue with that, but I think that one of the reasons why they are doing this film is to get out of that corner that they painted themselves into.  I expect that the studio will want to have a vehicle that they can drive in new open ended directions that will get a lot of mileage.  This is Fox's Star Wars.  I'm a bit torn about that though.  If they leave things in a way which allows for more films then we may have some cliff-hangers, but by George we will keep getting more movies.

It intrinsically makes sense to continue off of Aliens in a different direction, but things can still go wrong...

[HuDaFuK]

That's true.  I can't argue with that, but I think that one of the reasons why they are doing this film is to get out of that corner that they painted themselves into.

What corner? The idea that there's no possible way to continue after the fourth film, or do a side story, or do literally any one of a hundred things that doesn't involve arbitrarily scrapping one or more of the existing movies, is asinine. They haven't painted themselves into a corner in any way, shape or form. There's a whole universe left to explore.

[426Buddy]

That's true.  I can't argue with that, but I think that one of the reasons why they are doing this film is to get out of that corner that they painted themselves into.

What corner? The idea that there's no possible way to continue after the fourth film, or do a side story, or do literally any one of a hundred things that doesn't involve arbitrarily scrapping one or more of the existing movies, is asinine. They haven't painted themselves into a corner in any way, shape or form. There's a whole universe left to explore.

Yeah in the 200 years between Alien3 and Res, there could be some great stories of ships and crews running into another derelict or Jockey facility. Only reason they dont know in Resurrection is because no one lived to tell the story.

I felt the story was open to go in any direction after Alien3, even with Ressurection its still pretty wide open.

[Perfect-Organism]

That's true.  I can't argue with that, but I think that one of the reasons why they are doing this film is to get out of that corner that they painted themselves into.

What corner? The idea that there's no possible way to continue after the fourth film, or do a side story, or do literally any one of a hundred things that doesn't involve arbitrarily scrapping one or more of the existing movies, is asinine. They haven't painted themselves into a corner in any way, shape or form. There's a whole universe left to explore.

I think you're wrong.  You're looking at it from a hardcore fan's narrow point of view.  You and I may enjoy any Alien film that comes out which doesn't tie into anything, but to the vast majority of people out there it isn't entirely about the creatures.  People connect with other people... with characters.  The Aliens are very exotic animals, but they are animals nonetheless.  So people want more of Ripley's story basically.  Alien 3 felt cheap and improbable.  That's not just me talking, that would be the vast majority of fans and even more so casual fans of the series.  The Aliens series is about Ripley's story fundamentally.  Hicks and especially Newt have become an intrinsic part of that story.  This is the story that most people are interested in and going back to that as the focus will get the series out of the corner that it was painted into.

I don't get how this is so hard to understand.  Take a look at Starship Troopers.  Does the vast majority of people remember parts 2 and 3?  No they don't.  The hardcore fans might enjoy those films, but the vast majority of the people connected with the original cast of characters.  In ignoring that human connection, the whole series got derailed.  Huda, you keep saying that I did not get what I want.  That's true.  The vast majority of people did not get what they want.  That is why the franchise has limped along since 1993 rather than being something on par with Star Wars.  Now Fox realizes how to get back into that of stratosphere and they should be applauded.