was AvP a rip off of Prometheus?

[The1PerfectOrganism]

ChrisPachi, I have no idea what you mean.

At least I hope you aren't implying something.

[ChrisPachi]

I mean there are degrees of humanness between the two and for some people the Engineers have a bit too much of it. I don't think you can argue that the Space Jockey is just as 'human-like' in design as the Engineers. That's plain old crazy talk.

[The1PerfectOrganism]

Apart from the head, I would argue that the Engineers are even more Alien than the original Space Jockey when in their jumpsuits, which offer an extremely giger-esque aesthetic, more so than the bio suit's huge ribcage and elephantine head-piece.

Honestly I think their design serves best to whichever movie they are in.
I wasn't too upset by the design re-interpretation as the Space Jockey from Alien was essentially a man with a huge ribcage and elephantine head, nothing else alien about him apart from the odd patterns on his arms. When the Engineers were in their suits in Prometheus we essentially got the same thing, only their air of "Alien" was replaced with mystique and their scale was different.

[ChrisPachi]

Apart from the head, I would argue that the Engineers are even more Alien than the original Space Jockey when in their jumpsuits...

Suits. SUITS!

Comparing them is pointless. Both are great aliens and both are artful perversions of the human form. It all depends on how you like your perversion. I personally like mine Swiss, with a healthy does of WTF.

[Litshttam]

Unless Paul W.S. Anderson time-travelled to 2012 before he began crafting AvP in 1994, er, no. 

Three other 'coincidental' similarities no-one else has touched upon (that I can be bothered to verify, anyway); both at-the-end chestburst victims were played by Ian Whyte, real movie footage is watched ('Frankenstein vs The Wolfman' in AvP / 'Lawrence Of Arabia' in Prometheus) and the vessels used to reach the setting begin with the letter 'P' (Piper Maru *don't get me started on the black goo X Files thing!* in AvP / the eponymous Prometheus).

Mr. Scott's a hack these days.

Why? Because someone came along and took ideas that were all part of ALIEN's development and tacked them into a cheesy spin off franchise? Scott comes back and develops the ideas that he didn't have the time or budget for in 78, gives them more scope and gravitas than WSA ever could and he's a hack? Right.

Yes, a hack; his Prometheus is AvP Mk. II, as evidenced by myself and my predecessors in this thread. I have serious doubts as to the validity of Scott's claim that he hasn't seen AvP. Maybe he made the claim to pre-emptively quash the realization that Prometheus is a downright rip-off of Anderson's movie (your opinion of which is beside the point).

Even Predators seems to take a few Ideas from AVP: 3 predators, foot print detecting predator vision, hologram displayed by wrist computer, "The enemy of my enemy...", projectile wrist blades.

For a film that's supposedly so terrible, filmmakers really love ripping it off.

Oh yeah, well spotted!

[The1PerfectOrganism]

Kindly f**k-up, this argument died weeks ago.

You guys just want AVP to be better than it is and are butthurt Prometheus is MUCH better.

Anyway I won't be participating in this cycle of B.S.

[Gash]

Unless Paul W.S. Anderson time-travelled to 2012 before he began crafting AvP in 1994, er, no. 

Three other 'coincidental' similarities no-one else has touched upon (that I can be bothered to verify, anyway); both at-the-end chestburst victims were played by Ian Whyte, real movie footage is watched ('Frankenstein vs The Wolfman' in AvP / 'Lawrence Of Arabia' in Prometheus) and the vessels used to reach the setting begin with the letter 'P' (Piper Maru *don't get me started on the black goo X Files thing!* in AvP / the eponymous Prometheus).

Mr. Scott's a hack these days.

Why? Because someone came along and took ideas that were all part of ALIEN's development and tacked them into a cheesy spin off franchise? Scott comes back and develops the ideas that he didn't have the time or budget for in 78, gives them more scope and gravitas than WSA ever could and he's a hack? Right.

Yes, a hack; his Prometheus is AvP Mk. II, as evidenced by myself and my predecessors in this thread. I have serious doubts as to the validity of Scott's claim that he hasn't seen AvP. Maybe he made the claim to pre-emptively quash the realization that Prometheus is a downright rip-off of Anderson's movie (your opinion of which is beside the point).

Even Predators seems to take a few Ideas from AVP: 3 predators, foot print detecting predator vision, hologram displayed by wrist computer, "The enemy of my enemy...", projectile wrist blades.

For a film that's supposedly so terrible, filmmakers really love ripping it off.

Oh yeah, well spotted!

If anything, any peripheral similarities between AvP and Prometheus pretty much prove the point that Scott didn't see it and didn't care to. He rekindled elements from ALIEN's development /pre production era, unaware that Anderson had plundered it in the meantime. I'd say that was his right, and he did the ideas more justice.

[RobThom]

Of course it was.

And then Alien totally ripped off that horseshoe space ship and the creature at the end that came out of the space jockey dude.
But they arbitrarily changed a few things about it like the shape of the head to try and make it look like they were doing something original.

Lets face it,
Prometheus is one of those once in a lifetime classics that people will be copying, rehashing, rearranging and imitating for the last 30 years.

[Hunk]

the avp was not the tear in Prometheus pq avp and a movie battle between the two deadliest creatures in the universe for me was not the avp tear in Prometheus

[Litshttam]

Unless Paul W.S. Anderson time-travelled to 2012 before he began crafting AvP in 1994, er, no. 

Three other 'coincidental' similarities no-one else has touched upon (that I can be bothered to verify, anyway); both at-the-end chestburst victims were played by Ian Whyte, real movie footage is watched ('Frankenstein vs The Wolfman' in AvP / 'Lawrence Of Arabia' in Prometheus) and the vessels used to reach the setting begin with the letter 'P' (Piper Maru *don't get me started on the black goo X Files thing!* in AvP / the eponymous Prometheus).

Mr. Scott's a hack these days.

Why? Because someone came along and took ideas that were all part of ALIEN's development and tacked them into a cheesy spin off franchise? Scott comes back and develops the ideas that he didn't have the time or budget for in 78, gives them more scope and gravitas than WSA ever could and he's a hack? Right.

Yes, a hack; his Prometheus is AvP Mk. II, as evidenced by myself and my predecessors in this thread. I have serious doubts as to the validity of Scott's claim that he hasn't seen AvP. Maybe he made the claim to pre-emptively quash the realization that Prometheus is a downright rip-off of Anderson's movie (your opinion of which is beside the point).

Even Predators seems to take a few Ideas from AVP: 3 predators, foot print detecting predator vision, hologram displayed by wrist computer, "The enemy of my enemy...", projectile wrist blades.

For a film that's supposedly so terrible, filmmakers really love ripping it off.

Oh yeah, well spotted!

If anything, any peripheral similarities between AvP and Prometheus pretty much prove the point that Scott didn't see it and didn't care to. He rekindled elements from ALIEN's development /pre production era, unaware that Anderson had plundered it in the meantime. I'd say that was his right, and he did the ideas more justice.

You're either a Scott-apologist or easily hoodwinked.

[Gash]

Unless Paul W.S. Anderson time-travelled to 2012 before he began crafting AvP in 1994, er, no. 

Three other 'coincidental' similarities no-one else has touched upon (that I can be bothered to verify, anyway); both at-the-end chestburst victims were played by Ian Whyte, real movie footage is watched ('Frankenstein vs The Wolfman' in AvP / 'Lawrence Of Arabia' in Prometheus) and the vessels used to reach the setting begin with the letter 'P' (Piper Maru *don't get me started on the black goo X Files thing!* in AvP / the eponymous Prometheus).

Mr. Scott's a hack these days.

Why? Because someone came along and took ideas that were all part of ALIEN's development and tacked them into a cheesy spin off franchise? Scott comes back and develops the ideas that he didn't have the time or budget for in 78, gives them more scope and gravitas than WSA ever could and he's a hack? Right.

Yes, a hack; his Prometheus is AvP Mk. II, as evidenced by myself and my predecessors in this thread. I have serious doubts as to the validity of Scott's claim that he hasn't seen AvP. Maybe he made the claim to pre-emptively quash the realization that Prometheus is a downright rip-off of Anderson's movie (your opinion of which is beside the point).

Even Predators seems to take a few Ideas from AVP: 3 predators, foot print detecting predator vision, hologram displayed by wrist computer, "The enemy of my enemy...", projectile wrist blades.

For a film that's supposedly so terrible, filmmakers really love ripping it off.

Oh yeah, well spotted!

If anything, any peripheral similarities between AvP and Prometheus pretty much prove the point that Scott didn't see it and didn't care to. He rekindled elements from ALIEN's development /pre production era, unaware that Anderson had plundered it in the meantime. I'd say that was his right, and he did the ideas more justice.

You're either a Scott-apologist or easily hoodwinked.

Neither. AvP was clearly a mishmash of ideas ranging as far back as Star Beast. I prefer Prometheus because Ridley, (+ O'Bannon, Giger, Cobb, Foss, etc) had involvement with those ideas as they were being developed, even if they were then discarded due to budgetary constraints and story requirements. I therefore see a greater connection than a 'comic book cash in. I dislike AvP because it takes some of those ideas, mixes them with Predator and offers up something that feels like little more than a platform computer game.   

How shocking that I should prefer - like even - a film that is aiming to be about a bit more than 'aliens versus predator'.

I suppose I can give some credit to Anderson for wanting to rekindle the lost elements of ALIEN's early drafts, but it doesn't sit well with the Abbott and Costello school of monster mash ups. AvP:R on the other hand doesn't even try, it really was just falling back on it's name, finally driving the spin off franchise into the dust (where it belonged). You can see in some of the shots in AvP that Anderson cared, it was just a bad idea. It plundered a few decent set pieces, but yeah I maintain Prometheus did them more justice and had first claim on them.

[RobThom]

Are you suggesting that Hitler was a rip off of Pol Pot?

[hfeldhaus]

yeah im actually really glad avpr happened and even happier that it was a steaming pile of crap. hate the idea of aliens and predators sharing a film universe. keep it to the games and eu where it works. avp was a good shot at it and it was obvious anderson cared. it just came out a bit... meh

[Gazz]

Unless Paul W.S. Anderson time-travelled to 2012 before he began crafting AvP in 1994, er, no. 

Three other 'coincidental' similarities no-one else has touched upon (that I can be bothered to verify, anyway); both at-the-end chestburst victims were played by Ian Whyte, real movie footage is watched ('Frankenstein vs The Wolfman' in AvP / 'Lawrence Of Arabia' in Prometheus) and the vessels used to reach the setting begin with the letter 'P' (Piper Maru *don't get me started on the black goo X Files thing!* in AvP / the eponymous Prometheus).

Mr. Scott's a hack these days.

Why? Because someone came along and took ideas that were all part of ALIEN's development and tacked them into a cheesy spin off franchise? Scott comes back and develops the ideas that he didn't have the time or budget for in 78, gives them more scope and gravitas than WSA ever could and he's a hack? Right.

Yes, a hack; his Prometheus is AvP Mk. II, as evidenced by myself and my predecessors in this thread. I have serious doubts as to the validity of Scott's claim that he hasn't seen AvP. Maybe he made the claim to pre-emptively quash the realization that Prometheus is a downright rip-off of Anderson's movie (your opinion of which is beside the point).

Even Predators seems to take a few Ideas from AVP: 3 predators, foot print detecting predator vision, hologram displayed by wrist computer, "The enemy of my enemy...", projectile wrist blades.

For a film that's supposedly so terrible, filmmakers really love ripping it off.

Oh yeah, well spotted!

If anything, any peripheral similarities between AvP and Prometheus pretty much prove the point that Scott didn't see it and didn't care to. He rekindled elements from ALIEN's development /pre production era, unaware that Anderson had plundered it in the meantime. I'd say that was his right, and he did the ideas more justice.

You're either a Scott-apologist or easily hoodwinked.

Neither. AvP was clearly a mishmash of ideas ranging as far back as Star Beast. I prefer Prometheus because Ridley, (+ O'Bannon, Giger, Cobb, Foss, etc) had involvement with those ideas as they were being developed, even if they were then discarded due to budgetary constraints and story requirements. I therefore see a greater connection than a 'comic book cash in. I dislike AvP because it takes some of those ideas, mixes them with Predator and offers up something that feels like little more than a platform computer game.   

And the proof is right there in AvP's credit list. It's because Anderson ripped off Alien's discarded ideas that O Bannon and Shussett ended up with a story credit for AvP and not just the usual 'based on characters by'.

[Litshttam]

Unless Paul W.S. Anderson time-travelled to 2012 before he began crafting AvP in 1994, er, no. 

Three other 'coincidental' similarities no-one else has touched upon (that I can be bothered to verify, anyway); both at-the-end chestburst victims were played by Ian Whyte, real movie footage is watched ('Frankenstein vs The Wolfman' in AvP / 'Lawrence Of Arabia' in Prometheus) and the vessels used to reach the setting begin with the letter 'P' (Piper Maru *don't get me started on the black goo X Files thing!* in AvP / the eponymous Prometheus).

Mr. Scott's a hack these days.

Why? Because someone came along and took ideas that were all part of ALIEN's development and tacked them into a cheesy spin off franchise? Scott comes back and develops the ideas that he didn't have the time or budget for in 78, gives them more scope and gravitas than WSA ever could and he's a hack? Right.

Yes, a hack; his Prometheus is AvP Mk. II, as evidenced by myself and my predecessors in this thread. I have serious doubts as to the validity of Scott's claim that he hasn't seen AvP. Maybe he made the claim to pre-emptively quash the realization that Prometheus is a downright rip-off of Anderson's movie (your opinion of which is beside the point).

Even Predators seems to take a few Ideas from AVP: 3 predators, foot print detecting predator vision, hologram displayed by wrist computer, "The enemy of my enemy...", projectile wrist blades.

For a film that's supposedly so terrible, filmmakers really love ripping it off.

Oh yeah, well spotted!

If anything, any peripheral similarities between AvP and Prometheus pretty much prove the point that Scott didn't see it and didn't care to. He rekindled elements from ALIEN's development /pre production era, unaware that Anderson had plundered it in the meantime. I'd say that was his right, and he did the ideas more justice.

You're either a Scott-apologist or easily hoodwinked.

Neither. AvP was clearly a mishmash of ideas ranging as far back as Star Beast. I prefer Prometheus because Ridley, (+ O'Bannon, Giger, Cobb, Foss, etc) had involvement with those ideas as they were being developed, even if they were then discarded due to budgetary constraints and story requirements. I therefore see a greater connection than a 'comic book cash in. I dislike AvP because it takes some of those ideas, mixes them with Predator and offers up something that feels like little more than a platform computer game.   

And the proof is right there in AvP's credit list. It's because Anderson ripped off Alien's discarded ideas that O Bannon and Shussett ended up with a story credit for AvP and not just the usual 'based on characters by'.

You're alluding to both works having a 'pyramid'. Why would Anderson credit someone he's 'ripping off' (even if he was, as the concept ended up in the bin on Alien, Anderson could always plead ignorance and coincidence)?! Talk about asking for a lawsuit. No, a tip of the hat with O'Bannon & Shusett's blessing is all that was.